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Old Sep 6th 2003, 8:00 am   #46
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Default my two cents worth

I don’t know Wilf but I have lived in Australia for over 30 years, and I have to agree with a lot of the stuff that he says on this forum regarding Australia, It is not the place it was 30 and 40 years ago, nowhere is. However… my 30 years experience down under is slightly different.

I find it is still the land of opportunity, the reason for this is that if you are willing to try anything, and can think outside of the square you will find that you will make it here, most of the people I know in the UK are employees, most of the people I know in Australia are employers.

I had no qualifications when I came here and yet I have only been an employee for 3 out of 30 years I have lived here, the rest of the time I have been my own boss, sometimes employing up to 30 people, the reason for this is simple, I do not think that the average Australian tries as hard as the average English person.

Every disadvantage here you can turn into an advantage very easily, even the distance from the rest of the world is an advantage if you find something that is not available here and there is a demand for it, then instead if complaining start importing the item, I started a transport delivery company with one vehicle when someone said they couldn’t get something delivered.

I used to enjoy driving out to the desserts in Western Australia, within a few months people were paying me to take them out there, I started an off road adventure tour business, leading up to a dozen 4WD vehicles at a time into outback Australia

When I found I couldn’t get certain software packages here that were available overseas, I started importing and distributing software, after 8 years my company was one of the largest importers of computer hardware and software in s/e Asia, importing from all major continents, we even had translators working for us in the UK and made 4 business trips around the world every year looking for opportunities to import stuff that was not available here.

My last move was 7 years ago at the age of 47 to another state in Australia, 3,000 miles away from my first State Western Australia, I knew not one single person there, we bought a house with land in the country. I saw they were quite a bit behind the State I had just left as regards IT, so I bought books on Dreamweaver, Flash etc and taught myself HTML programming, I can now support myself by creating web pages and networking and repairing PC’s. I also breed sheep as a hobby, I’d never done this before and guess what, you can even make good money out of breeding lambs and selling wool

So don’t think its all negative, your life here will depend on why you want to leave the UK in the first place, what you are looking for in life, and how hard you are prepaired to work when you get here, if you can manage to think outside of the square and turn every negative into an advantage then you will do well.

Having rambled on about this, Australia is not a sunny UK, it is and can be a very dangerous place in more ways than one. It is hard, and it has a short often tragic history. You have to learn new rules and play by them, begin to understand the Australian’s obvious sense of humour, its about halfway between UK and US, you will have the mickey taken out of you for your accent, but remember you are here by choice, they are here by chance. I still miss certain things about the UK, my wife does not even though she has 11 brothers a sisters still living in the UK, she doesn’t miss some of the things that I do, I changed states to have most of the things that I missed from England, 4 seasons, hawthorn hedges, long summer evenings, mountains, country roads, villages with greens and churches, deciduous trees, snow, log fires etc. I have them all now

I’m 55 years old now, 5 years younger than Wilf, and I’ve come to the conclusion that it is not so much England that we are missing, it is our youth, I know England isn’t what it was when we were 20 years old and living there, but hey! That’s still where our childhood memories are and always will be, so no matter how long we live here we will still have memories of how England used to be when we were in our youth.

For what its worth, my wife and I have been to every major continent in the world, including India and Africa and all of Asia, and the conclusion we have both come to with Australia and New Zealand is that they are the only two countries in the world where the advantages outweigh the disadvantages at this present moment in time.

As John Lennon once said. “Life is what happens when you’re making other plans�.

My two cents worth
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Old Sep 6th 2003, 8:14 am   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by chippy
Now, Wilfo and his ilk will be the first to shout "what do you know Chippy, you don't live here," but I feel he misses the point, and tends not to look at the bigger picture. Notice how he was one of the first to respond to your original post with an entirley negative overtone.

Wilfo is an intelligent man, there's no doubt about that, but he's a natural pessimist, and actually quite frail in my opinion. He won't even speak to me because I challenge his opinions. Read what he says, formulate your own views.
I do hope Chippy that if/when you reach Australia you will be able to post true and honest posts about how you see life here and it will be interesting to see how close they match those of "Wilfo and his ilks".

Last edited by owieb; Sep 6th 2003 at 8:22 am.
 
Old Sep 6th 2003, 8:31 am   #48
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Default Re: my two cents worth

Quote:
Originally posted by pjr55

As John Lennon once said. “Life is what happens when you’re making other plans�.
I always wonder, how much "opportunity" is confused with just pure luck?

The best analogy I can think of is the game of Golf.

I understand that every player practices with the ambition of getting the ball in the hole every time with the minimum number of strokes.

Every professional golf tournament, to every professional player looks like the land of opportunity. They try to read the wind, flicking a few blades of grass in the air. They line the ball on the tee with the lettering lined up the same way. They go through their routine, of practice swings, bum wobbles, addresses, undresses, coughs, snorts, tamps, and chats with the caddy.

At the end of the tournament however, the winner is always the individual who was the best on that day. The one who had the most luck.

I have never heard a winning golfer say:

"The course was what got me here today, no other course could have ever been as helpful to me as this golf course. It presented every golfing opportunity I needed to win today".

If you have won on the Australian course, then good on you. It is however a hard course and most of us hackers can no longer even make the cut. Ask Ian Baker Finch.
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Old Sep 6th 2003, 9:18 am   #49
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Originally posted by owieb
I do hope Chippy that if/when you reach Australia you will be able to post true and honest posts about how you see life here and it will be interesting to see how close they match those of "Wilfo and his ilks".
I repeat, success is likely to be bought about by a positive mindset, wherever you are, I do not confine this statement exclusively to Aus.
A bit of luck does help but is not so important over the longer term.
Golfers are not ranked on single a game, rather on their performance over the whole season.
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Old Sep 6th 2003, 10:17 am   #50
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Default always wonder, how much "opportunity" is confused with just pure luck?

yes you're right of course, I loved being told by customers that came into one of my retail stores during their lunch hour or their paid holiday with their 17.5 % leave pay loading how "lucky" I was to own my own business.

of course my luck had nothing at all to do with my wife and I working 14 hours a day, 6 days a week for 8 years without a holiday or even a lunch break. the harder we worked the luckier we got. Arn't we lucky eh ?
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Old Sep 8th 2003, 12:35 pm   #51
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So working hard is only worthwhile in the Lucky Country?

You all missed my point...and the parody. Working hard will get you somewhere anywhere, not just in Australia.

pjr55 worked hard in Australia and succeeded, great. They may have done better in the UK or the US or Continental Europe or a thousand other places?

When challenged the lament is of all the hard work necessary to achieve these goals, with nary a mention of the actual business advantages offered by being in the Lucky Country.

Hardly the land of opportunity if you have to get the benefits by "working 14 hours a day, 6 days a week for 8 years without a holiday or even a lunch break", and resent others getting a 17.5% leave loading.

Oh and the sly slagoff of Australians is noted: "I do not think that the average Australian tries as hard as the average English person".

Your colonising mentality never stops does it.

Offering the natives a few beads and blankets to have the privalege of working for the superior Englishman?
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Old Sep 8th 2003, 4:46 pm   #52
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Default Re: Just starting out.....

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Originally posted by <")))><
Hello all,

Thought we'd say hi and introduce ourselves. We are just starting out on our plan to move to Oz.

Looking at all the visa application posts on here, the waiting, the heartache, the stress, the disappointments, it looks a very daunting process.

However, we are determined and positive. I work in I.T., my wife and I have 2 kids, 4 and 2 y.o.

Where to start??? This is going to be a long process..........this looks like a cool place to hang out while we wait !!

Hi there Rich & Kate,

We're in the same position as yourselves (we also have 2 boys and husband is in IT). Just started on this long and winding road as well. We've been looking at this web site for about 6 months now and can say that on the whole we've had a positive experience. I had a few weeks where I didn't want to check any postings because everything was getting hi-jacked and the original reason for a particular post was lost amongst tit-for-tat stuff. Gained some really good info about flights, areas, schools, (SPIDERS) etc.

Actually, quite a while ago someone left a post about creatures of the 8-legged variety and she said that she can cope with everything that goes with her visa application etc, leaving her family, being thousands of miles away etc etc but what she could'nt cope with would be the spiders. I thought to myself, well if that's all she's got to be worried about then she's going to be in trouble. How the mighty have fallen. The postings here on the subject will make your hair curl!! I now utterly sympathise with her! Arachnophobia is the bane if my life.

You'll find this site helpful, funny and sometimes a bit irritating but what I find the best is seeing people who have gone through the process, got their visas and then finally got to Oz or Nz. Their postings put things into perspective on why we have decided to emigrate. You'll find some people acclimatise quickly, some take more time, some give it a couple of years and return.

Please remember out-there, this is my first posting so please be gentle with me! Also it's taken my 6 months to pluck up the courage to send a post so if I stuff up, I apologise....
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Old Sep 8th 2003, 5:25 pm   #53
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Default Re: Just starting out.....

Quote:
Originally posted by <")))><
Hello all,

Thought we'd say hi and introduce ourselves. We are just starting out on our plan to move to Oz.

Looking at all the visa application posts on here, the waiting, the heartache, the stress, the disappointments, it looks a very daunting process.

However, we are determined and positive. I work in I.T., my wife and I have 2 kids, 4 and 2 y.o.

Where to start??? This is going to be a long process..........this looks like a cool place to hang out while we wait !!

Hi there Rich & Kate,

We're in the same position as yourselves (we also have 2 boys and husband is in IT). Just started on this long and winding road as well. We've been looking at this web site for about 6 months now and can say that on the whole we've had a positive experience. I had a few weeks where I didn't want to check any postings because everything was getting hi-jacked and the original reason for a particular post was lost amongst tit-for-tat stuff. Gained some really good info about flights, areas, schools, (SPIDERS) etc.

Actually, quite a while ago someone left a post about creatures of the 8-legged variety and she said that she can cope with everything that goes with her visa application etc, leaving her family, being thousands of miles away etc etc but what she could'nt cope with would be the spiders. I thought to myself, well if that's all she's got to be worried about then she's going to be in trouble. How the mighty have fallen. The postings here on the subject will make your hair curl!! I now utterly sympathise with her! Arachnophobia is the bane if my life.

You'll find this site helpful, funny and sometimes a bit irritating but what I find the best is seeing people who have gone through the process, got their visas and then finally got to Oz or Nz. Their postings put things into perspective on why we have decided to emigrate. You'll find some people acclimatise quickly, some take more time, some give it a couple of years and return.

Please remember out-there, this is my first posting so please be gentle with me! Also it's taken my 6 months to pluck up the courage to send a post so if I stuff up, I apologise....
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Old Sep 8th 2003, 5:32 pm   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Florida_03
I always wonder, how much "opportunity" is confused with just pure luck?

The best analogy I can think of is the game of Golf.

I understand that every player practices with the ambition of getting the ball in the hole every time with the minimum number of strokes.

Every professional golf tournament, to every professional player looks like the land of opportunity. They try to read the wind, flicking a few blades of grass in the air. They line the ball on the tee with the lettering lined up the same way. They go through their routine, of practice swings, bum wobbles, addresses, undresses, coughs, snorts, tamps, and chats with the caddy.

At the end of the tournament however, the winner is always the individual who was the best on that day. The one who had the most luck.

I have never heard a winning golfer say:

"The course was what got me here today, no other course could have ever been as helpful to me as this golf course. It presented every golfing opportunity I needed to win today".

If you have won on the Australian course, then good on you. It is however a hard course and most of us hackers can no longer even make the cut. Ask Ian Baker Finch.
to trust entirely to luck seems a very frail plan. If we are going with golfing analogies Gary Player once famously said "the more I practice the luckier I get" the lesson here surely is that you only get out of things what you put into them, and nothing comes without hard work, unless you are very fortunate.

I think the suggestion was that some perceived disadvantages offer opportunites to exploit something in demand. Its also quite right that thriving businesses in the UK have the opportunity to be replicated sucessfully in australia (as US ones do in the UK)and I am sure there are instances where the reverse would apply also.


James
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Old Sep 8th 2003, 6:40 pm   #55
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Default re:just starting out

Hi to Rich & Kate and She'llberight.

We too just starting out, 2 children, husband a nurse. Hopefully by the end of 2004 we'll be in sunnier climates. But going on some of these postings, some people have painted a very black picture on all things Aussie, it can be quite depressing.

We know the streets are not paved with gold and wherever you go you have to work damn hard to survive. But life is an adventure and I don't want to get to 60 and say 'I wish we had done that', I don't want my children turning round and saying 'we had the chance why didn't we go!'

It is daunting but I am so looking forward to it all, the paperwork, the packing etc etc. Already started having a good clearout and carbooting loads of stuff. My other half thinks its great, we can now see the computer rather than climbing over toys and my 'collections' to get to it. (Of course, he now can't get in the garage because it's full of stuff waiting for me to take it to the car boot sale!!!!!!!)

Good Luck and stay excited. Let me know how things are going and we can compare notes!
Sue C.
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Old Sep 8th 2003, 11:25 pm   #56
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Originally posted by Florida_03
So working hard is only worthwhile in the Lucky Country?

You all missed my point...and the parody. Working hard will get you somewhere anywhere, not just in Australia.

pjr55 worked hard in Australia and succeeded, great. They may have done better in the UK or the US or Continental Europe or a thousand other places?

When challenged the lament is of all the hard work necessary to achieve these goals, with nary a mention of the actual business advantages offered by being in the Lucky Country.

Hardly the land of opportunity if you have to get the benefits by "working 14 hours a day, 6 days a week for 8 years without a holiday or even a lunch break", and resent others getting a 17.5% leave loading.

Oh and the sly slagoff of Australians is noted: "I do not think that the average Australian tries as hard as the average English person".

Your colonising mentality never stops does it.

Offering the natives a few beads and blankets to have the privalege of working for the superior Englishman?


When you see the sort of poms on their way here, Florida, it is not surprising they have to try so hard is it? If you are riding a pushbike in life, you have to peddle very fast do you not to keep up with the cars?

I always used to agree with the old saying that excessive busyness indicates a lack of technique. Edison is quoted a lot but Edison was a very deficient man whose achievements are questionable unless we are talking about his achievements at pinching very young secretaries' arses, apparently. For a thicko like Edison, it was indeed 99% perspiration...., but for clever people, the fractions can be reversed.

A lot of these poms reinvent themselves when they hit foreign shores and try that which they did not at home. They then attribute all they achieve to the new country and look back at the shithole they left (UK) and condemn it even more - look what Oz has given me, all you gave me was nothing but grief and misery (and the education, work experience, and the money to dump you behind) you useless hellhole on hairy legs. As you say, there is no understanding of "But you could have done that in lots of other places (including UK) and may have done even better than in Oz."

Anyway, good post mate and hope the plans are going well.

Wilf
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Old Sep 8th 2003, 11:56 pm   #57
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Originally posted by Wilf
For a thicko like Edison, it was indeed 99% perspiration....,

Hahahahahahahah....Edison a thicko !!! I love this site !

I suppose Da Vinci should have also stuck to one subject rather than being a do-gooding know-it-all. I ask you, no-one could possibly master art, science and engineering, could they???



Fantastic...I would never have guessed my first thread would be akin to a drunken intellectual conversation down the local on a Friday night !!!

I'm going to like it here
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Old Sep 9th 2003, 12:09 am   #58
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Originally posted by <")))><
Hahahahahahahah....Edison a thicko !!! I love this site !

I suppose Da Vinci should have also stuck to one subject rather than being a do-gooding know-it-all. I ask you, no-one could possibly master art, science and engineering, could they???



Fantastic...I would never have guessed my first thread would be akin to a drunken intellectual conversation down the local on a Friday night !!!

I'm going to like it here

You would like to describe why Edison was a genius?

Edison was what would now be called a hard bitten manager and developer of ideas, rather than a particularly creative man. That is what I mean. He was accused of "borrowing" ideas and making claim for honour he did not deserve. He is a great hero to the yanks who lacked great science and engineering figures and his importance and ability is exaggerated greatly. One of the greater US science brains was George Washington Carver but you will not know him because he was a black man and not the sort of thing that the US wanted to champion.

Edison even knew his limitations himself and that is why he said the "Genius is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration" comment. I would not be surprised if someone else did not invent that first too.
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Old Sep 9th 2003, 12:12 am   #59
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Originally posted by <")))><
Hahahahahahahah....Edison a thicko !!! I love this site !

I suppose Da Vinci should have also stuck to one subject rather than being a do-gooding know-it-all. I ask you, no-one could possibly master art, science and engineering, could they???



Fantastic...I would never have guessed my first thread would be akin to a drunken intellectual conversation down the local on a Friday night !!!

I'm going to like it here

PS Leonardo (you should not say da Vinci, because it is just where he was from, not his surname. It is like saying Wilf of Oz and calling me "Of Oz" - does not pinpoint me, you see) was indeed one of the great genii. A man more unlike Edison you could hardly have chosen.
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Old Sep 9th 2003, 12:31 am   #60
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Christ Florida ! I didnt mean to ofend you mate,

I was just trying to give another point of view and some encouragement. I thought I might have had something positive to contribute after living here half my life. Obviously not.

You are right, the same thing could be achieved in many other countries and propably easier too

the new arrivals in this land are going to need a lot more than just luck, I've had a lot of personal emails in my short time on this forum and I can see what Wilf is saying now, 3 of them have asked if there is a Mcdonalds and KFC ??? sigh!

I wish them all the luck in the world when they get here anyway.
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