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Old Sep 5th 2003, 8:33 am   #31
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Hi guys, live down road from you in Bursledon!
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 8:37 am   #32
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Default Re: Banter

Quote:
Originally posted by steandleigh


Love the banter between Wilf and associates! - It's hilarious and I log on just for the amusement of that as much as the interesting information on offer!!!

Welcome Salmon and family to the forum - am a newbie myself - I have found the posts ( Both positive and negative ) to be very helpful in our decision making process. My advice - which I have very quickly gleaned from this site is : " don't believe the hype " - but there is also a lot of true opinions which are well worth observing - and it's not all bad!

Am wondering like so many others why Wilf stays in Oz if he has such a low opinion of the country? Could it be that now he is retired he has decided to become a Victor meldrew?

Best wishes, Leigh.


I came for the lifestyle, but I stayed for the culture.

All the best, Wilfdrew
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 11:03 am   #33
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Default Lifestyle and culture.



Hi wilf,

I am sure you have answered these questions a million times over - please humour me - How long have you been over there? When were you last in the U.K? What are the worst points about living " Down Under "? Whats the good stuff?

I have family in Sydney, they've been there a few years now and they say it's the little things that cheese you off the most.

My husband spent a year in Oz before we got married and the thought of returning had never left him. We have just got back from a trip around Oz and having been there now myself, I too feel the same as him. We feel at home, we feel welcome and we feel happy. We deliberately carried out our trip as an exercise in " living " and not " holidaying " because he wanted me to be aware that emigrating is not a life long holiday option - same stuff to do everyday, just different country!

I believe bureaucracy, red tape and taxation are everywhere so we can handle that, my husband and I are grown ups now (!), but I wonder what Oz will provide for my children ( Aged 5 and 2 ) in terms of quality of life in the future.

We are not emigrating in order to buy an enormous house with our positive U.K equity, nor do we wish to further our careers or wish to be high fliers, on the contrary - our aim is to live a very quiet life and raise our children in a gentle way, teaching them to appreciate the free things in life - nature, and the beauty of it, fresh air and family life. The things that we think really matter. I am sure we could do this in the U.K also, and we do try but ultimately I feel that living in the U.K today we are smothered and totally surrounded by a money grabbing, back stabbing, every man for himself society where there is no place for the individual, no room for " The Family " and where ultimately it will all reach such a peak that civil unrest is almost inevitable. It's a small island and we're all crammed in to the point of suffocation. All I want is space for my kids to breathe.

Wherever you live, theres good and bad. We're under no illusions whatsoever that day - to - day life will probably be quite simlar to what we have now. Don't you think that everyone has the right to feel free in their country - wherever that may be?

best wishes, Leigh.
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 11:44 am   #34
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Default Re: Just starting out.....

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Originally posted by <")))><
Hello all,

Thought we'd say hi and introduce ourselves. We are just starting out on our plan to move to Oz.

Looking at all the visa application posts on here, the waiting, the heartache, the stress, the disappointments, it looks a very daunting process.

However, we are determined and positive. I work in I.T., my wife and I have 2 kids, 4 and 2 y.o.

Where to start??? This is going to be a long process..........this looks like a cool place to hang out while we wait !!
I wish you all the luck in the world.
Hope you have nerves like steel I have lost well over 3 stone in weight with all the stress it causes.....best diet Ive ever been on and the quickest......lol
Sky
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 12:22 pm   #35
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Default Re: Lifestyle and culture.

Quote:
Originally posted by steandleigh


Hi wilf,

I am sure you have answered these questions a million times over - please humour me - How long have you been over there? When were you last in the U.K? What are the worst points about living " Down Under "? Whats the good stuff?

I have family in Sydney, they've been there a few years now and they say it's the little things that cheese you off the most.

My husband spent a year in Oz before we got married and the thought of returning had never left him. We have just got back from a trip around Oz and having been there now myself, I too feel the same as him. We feel at home, we feel welcome and we feel happy. We deliberately carried out our trip as an exercise in " living " and not " holidaying " because he wanted me to be aware that emigrating is not a life long holiday option - same stuff to do everyday, just different country!

I believe bureaucracy, red tape and taxation are everywhere so we can handle that, my husband and I are grown ups now (!), but I wonder what Oz will provide for my children ( Aged 5 and 2 ) in terms of quality of life in the future.

We are not emigrating in order to buy an enormous house with our positive U.K equity, nor do we wish to further our careers or wish to be high fliers, on the contrary - our aim is to live a very quiet life and raise our children in a gentle way, teaching them to appreciate the free things in life - nature, and the beauty of it, fresh air and family life. The things that we think really matter. I am sure we could do this in the U.K also, and we do try but ultimately I feel that living in the U.K today we are smothered and totally surrounded by a money grabbing, back stabbing, every man for himself society where there is no place for the individual, no room for " The Family " and where ultimately it will all reach such a peak that civil unrest is almost inevitable. It's a small island and we're all crammed in to the point of suffocation. All I want is space for my kids to breathe.

Wherever you live, theres good and bad. We're under no illusions whatsoever that day - to - day life will probably be quite simlar to what we have now. Don't you think that everyone has the right to feel free in their country - wherever that may be?

best wishes, Leigh.


I have been here 40 years. I was last in the UK 5 years ago.

I would say the worst points are the poor career prospects for white collar foreign workers (including poms); the lack of world class galleries, museums, events, exhibitions, theatres, beautiful buildings of interest, or even just the fact that musicians often do not bother with this side of the world - you exhaust Oz's cultural spots quicker than a cheetah on jet powered rollerskates; the terrible geographical isolation - you are not just a very very long and very very expensive (especially on Oz wages) journey from family in the UK but you just are not part of where "it" (world events, I suppose) is going on and it don't half feel like it too; the very poor wages - I forget the average wage now exactly but it is something like $30,000 - $35,000 and that is just not enough and many people do indeed earn that money; the crime - every bit as bad risk of being a victim as in the UK and the same distribution of crimes - you name it, it is here and in similar numbers compared to the population; the Ozzies are not the characters that you get in the UK, there is not the variety of types and there is not the funny nutters (in a good sense) with their senses of humour that I grew up with and still know in the UK - the UK is a great place for characters; the national obsession with sport and the national sport of comparing themselves to the poms all the time is both sad for Oz and irritating a bit after a while - the humour of the Ozzies is not sophisticated and can border on offensive when they think they are being funny - they like to think it is "harder", it is just unfunny and not very clever; you can't get hold of anything that comes out new that you hear about - e.g., I like Brit comedy and it is handy to have access to good shops and get it when it comes out on video, record, etc. I have to sometimes wait for trips to London.

The best points are that people here are less scared of eachother than they are in the UK - they are not inherently friendlier, that is what most claim and it is wrong - they are just less scared of eachother and so less fences around themselves; Shopping and other chores I hate are less stressful given the smaller densities of people - my wife says the clothes shops are lousy but I am not so bothered (it is better than Nz though where even I can see how lousy it is - you cannot even buy a pair of strides for being a little bit smart); the beaches - less said the better, there are many lovely beaches but I will nod off if I start writing about sand near water, it does not set me on fire with desire; the landscape - I like to paint and Oz has some fantastic natural features. This last is the best and what makes Oz worth bothering with.

I have been rambling on a bit and so will not say much more, but I cannot agree with your take on the UK. Though my last visit was 5 years back, I am on the phone and email a lot to close friends and family and ask detailed questions (I even know whether individual shops are still there in my old haunts, etc) and I never find the UK (even London which changes more than any other part) much different between visits, except I find it better. The basics of the place are still the same. Crime is going down though people's imagination is getting more fevered and what used to be nothing in my day is crime now - when I was a kid in London, to have 2 others come up to you, give you a whack and take your money was "boys being boys" and you tried to get them back for it, now it is a mugging and goes on the police books. When you press most people, they have much experience of reading and hearing about crime, but not much experience of it themselves (not stories, not imaginings, not fears, not newspaper reports, not auntie flo's friend's friend, but themselves personally) and if people were honest about their own experience rather than expressing their fears and nightmarish imaginings, things would sound a lot better. Most of my friends and family in the UK have never been the victim of more than pinched cars and that happens here all the time.

Your "civil unrest" fears make me think that you are ready to leave and perhaps for you it is necessary. In the early 80s, there were riots in London. Now London is thriving and, for its size and density, an exremely safe city. Safer than Oz cities like Sydney, I would say. I am sure you are beyond persuading and I know that the UK media do a fantastic job of gettign everyone in the UK terrified, but there is more bull than truth and it is just sad that people believe it. The UK is the greatest place in the world and Oz is poor by comparison. The UK is thriving, paying attention to its problems instead of ignoring them like Oz, and growing very well into its new role as modern European nation.

Best wishes and yes, by all means give Oz a try, but if you want my advice, come for 2 years before deciding it is for good - keep an escape route open; you may be surprised how pleased you will be that you did.

Wilf
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 1:23 pm   #36
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Good posting wilf - my brother emigrated last October, said he wouuld never be back, couldn't wait to leave the uk, blah blah, but you know what he admits that even with most of our our family overin Oz now that its really hard, lots of illness with the kids and his wife the last couple of months and he is really homesick, has got the massive house and the big cars, and pool etc but realises that actually its not that important.

Now we are hoping to be out there by this time 2004, all our family will then be living out in Brisbane and hes hanging on in for us all to arrive, we are going with our eyes wide open, as wilf says when you are earning the dollar and spending the dollar your outlook is a lot different, don't get me wrong Oz is wonderful and we can't wait to see those big skies again, but its gonna be hard to leave all our friends behind and with nobody out there already we wouldn't even contemplate it, my brother went out with rosetinted glasses that came off after about 2 weeks, we already have an idea of life out there so our expectations are not so high, and we do intend to go for 2 years and take it from there.
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 2:19 pm   #37
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Salmon - LOve the fishy thing!

Welcome, and get ready for some grief......

Where to start???

This is a good place to get a great deal of excellent information. There is also a great deal of valued opinion which I have learned from in the last few weeks.

I suggest you spend some time looking back at as many of the posts here as possible because there is a ton of valuable information.

There is enough information and good advice here, and good people to answer your questions, to mean you may not need to use an agent to help you with your application - though it may be easier to use one.

Do not think that this is going to be quick, depending on how you apply for your visa you could wait up to 2 years ( or more ) so get some advice about the best way to apply - skills, sponsorship, setting up a business, a large pile of cash to invest will help.

There are lots of good links to aplicable sites - www.hartill.net/Aus/links


Lastly

Good luck to you and you family and keep positive.

Ken of Ken and Nel
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 2:31 pm   #38
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Default Re: Lifestyle and culture.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wilf

I have been rambling on a bit....
Maybe, maybe not, but after reading that Wilf I better understand your reasons for your attitude.

I think it's a shame that some people have decided to put you on their ignore list as I think in recent weeks you've posted some interesting and useful stuff.

Now who's rambling...
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 2:33 pm   #39
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Default Re: Lifestyle and culture.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wilf
I have been here 40 years. I was last in the UK 5 years ago.

I would say the worst points are the poor career prospects for white collar foreign workers (including poms); the lack of world class galleries, museums, events, exhibitions, theatres, beautiful buildings of interest, or even just the fact that musicians often do not bother with this side of the world - you exhaust Oz's cultural spots quicker than a cheetah on jet powered rollerskates; the terrible geographical isolation - you are not just a very very long and very very expensive (especially on Oz wages) journey from family in the UK but you just are not part of where "it" (world events, I suppose) is going on and it don't half feel like it too; the very poor wages - I forget the average wage now exactly but it is something like $30,000 - $35,000 and that is just not enough and many people do indeed earn that money; the crime - every bit as bad risk of being a victim as in the UK and the same distribution of crimes - you name it, it is here and in similar numbers compared to the population; the Ozzies are not the characters that you get in the UK, there is not the variety of types and there is not the funny nutters (in a good sense) with their senses of humour that I grew up with and still know in the UK - the UK is a great place for characters; the national obsession with sport and the national sport of comparing themselves to the poms all the time is both sad for Oz and irritating a bit after a while - the humour of the Ozzies is not sophisticated and can border on offensive when they think they are being funny - they like to think it is "harder", it is just unfunny and not very clever; you can't get hold of anything that comes out new that you hear about - e.g., I like Brit comedy and it is handy to have access to good shops and get it when it comes out on video, record, etc. I have to sometimes wait for trips to London.

The best points are that people here are less scared of eachother than they are in the UK - they are not inherently friendlier, that is what most claim and it is wrong - they are just less scared of eachother and so less fences around themselves; Shopping and other chores I hate are less stressful given the smaller densities of people - my wife says the clothes shops are lousy but I am not so bothered (it is better than Nz though where even I can see how lousy it is - you cannot even buy a pair of strides for being a little bit smart); the beaches - less said the better, there are many lovely beaches but I will nod off if I start writing about sand near water, it does not set me on fire with desire; the landscape - I like to paint and Oz has some fantastic natural features. This last is the best and what makes Oz worth bothering with.

I have been rambling on a bit and so will not say much more, but I cannot agree with your take on the UK. Though my last visit was 5 years back, I am on the phone and email a lot to close friends and family and ask detailed questions (I even know whether individual shops are still there in my old haunts, etc) and I never find the UK (even London which changes more than any other part) much different between visits, except I find it better. The basics of the place are still the same. Crime is going down though people's imagination is getting more fevered and what used to be nothing in my day is crime now - when I was a kid in London, to have 2 others come up to you, give you a whack and take your money was "boys being boys" and you tried to get them back for it, now it is a mugging and goes on the police books. When you press most people, they have much experience of reading and hearing about crime, but not much experience of it themselves (not stories, not imaginings, not fears, not newspaper reports, not auntie flo's friend's friend, but themselves personally) and if people were honest about their own experience rather than expressing their fears and nightmarish imaginings, things would sound a lot better. Most of my friends and family in the UK have never been the victim of more than pinched cars and that happens here all the time.

Your "civil unrest" fears make me think that you are ready to leave and perhaps for you it is necessary. In the early 80s, there were riots in London. Now London is thriving and, for its size and density, an exremely safe city. Safer than Oz cities like Sydney, I would say. I am sure you are beyond persuading and I know that the UK media do a fantastic job of gettign everyone in the UK terrified, but there is more bull than truth and it is just sad that people believe it. The UK is the greatest place in the world and Oz is poor by comparison. The UK is thriving, paying attention to its problems instead of ignoring them like Oz, and growing very well into its new role as modern European nation.

Best wishes and yes, by all means give Oz a try, but if you want my advice, come for 2 years before deciding it is for good - keep an escape route open; you may be surprised how pleased you will be that you did.

Wilf

wilf what an excellent posting. not too negative but factual and precise must read more of your postings from now on

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Old Sep 5th 2003, 6:00 pm   #40
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Default Lifestyle and culture...

Thanks Wilf for an objective reply. You are right for us to keep an escape plan in mind and we are fortunate that we have one. I do dissagree though with how life is in the U.K. Where we live - suburbs, 10 miles outside Nottingham - is a relatively small town. Over the past 5 years the increase in crime has been dramatic. Burglaries, car theft, drugs and vandalism. Maybe this is a sign of our local youth? my husbands van was broken into twice, with tools to the value of £2000 taken - did the police do anything? No - we got a crime number. We have gangs of youths roaming up and down our road 'til all hours, smoking marijuana, smashing bottle, pinching stuff out of our gardens etc. I cannot go to the local ATM at night for fear of the youths hanging over my shoulder ready to snatch my cash. There is nothing for the kids to do in the area - local government have been lobbied to provide something for them, but will they? Of course not - they're underfunded for the foreseeable future. so where exactly does all my husbands tax go? To fund things like a £700 million dome in london which no-one visited. It's o.k though that our local comprehensive has the worst facilities in the area and that our pensioners survive on a pittance and that we have literally thousands of homeless living on the streets each night - because we've got a wonderful DOME which shows to the world what a fantastic, leading nation good old great britain is. Sorry, but theres no "Great" in Britain anymore.

thanks for your reply though, I appreciate your comments and take them onboard.

Best wishes, leigh.
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 6:51 pm   #41
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Default Re: Lifestyle and culture.

Wilf

Very good posting about your feelings about life in Oz. Since I joined this forum people like you have made me become more realistic about our proposed life and what we will be "getting into". This realism is one of the positives about this forum. Keep it up.

However, I do not think that you are qualified to comment on life in the UK based on your last visit 5 years ago. I love my country but worry about the changes that have occurred in the last few years and changes that will happen in the next few. You have to live in a country permanantly to appreciate this and your postings are so valuable as you are currently experiencing real life (?) in Australia.

That being said keep up the postings!
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 7:33 pm   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by <")))><
Wilf, thanks for being honest and thank you for a reality check. Clearly, we have given this a lot of thought and are not entering into it lightly, particularly with so much at stake.

I work for a big (if not the biggest) IT company on the planet and already have several job prospects. We, like everyone else, are feeling the pinch of economic slowdown and Oz is no different to anywhere else..........but I have a head-start, contacts, skills and tenacity and I'm hoping these will realise my dream for me to continue in IT. If not, hey.......I have no problem working behind a till in a 'leccy store. In fact, career is way down my list of priorities if it's on it at all. I'm a survivor, and I want this challenge in order to broaden my family horizons, not for my wallet or my so-called career.

If Oz is "very ordinary", then my thesaurus doesn't have words for the UK, so lets just call it "grey". I'm under no illusions - I just want a chance.

Welcome to the forum Fishy. From what you describe here I would guess that you will make it in Aus, but more importantly, much more importantly, you will make it anywhere. Adaptability, tenacity, and single-mindedness are qualities that will aid success wherever you are.

Now, Wilfo and his ilk will be the first to shout "what do you know Chippy, you don't live here," but I feel he misses the point, and tends not to look at the bigger picture. Notice how he was one of the first to respond to your original post with an entirley negative overtone.

Wilfo is an intelligent man, there's no doubt about that, but he's a natural pessimist, and actually quite frail in my opinion. He won't even speak to me because I challenge his opinions. Read what he says, formulate your own views.
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 9:30 pm   #43
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Go on then Wilf you're off my ignore list.

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Old Sep 5th 2003, 10:19 pm   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wilf
Right, last time pal and I will be very nice to you.

I care not a jot if you do not like my posts. If you want to read them, read them, if not, don't. Put me on your ignore list but in any case, remove yourself to another place away from my physog.

I am not going to post in a style dictated by you or anyone else and there are already enough sherrifs on this forum without you playing Deputy Dawg too. I post in many tones of voice, depending on the topic and mood of the thread. Mind your own business, son, and let others mind their's. Do not think that I would be any different face to face; in your case, I would be less polite than this I can assure you if you thought you might "tick me off". I tell you what, I will return the tone of your post and tell you never to ever post on here again because I do not like you and if you ever do, I want you to do it in French. There have been votes to ban me before, hammy, and the majority wanted me off. However, a large minority did not, and I post for their sake, not tin pot editors and forum censors like your good self. Ban yourself and go and sit in a puddle.

In summary: Do me a favour and put me on ignore. That way I do not need to hear from you again and you do not need to read me again. Simple is it not?
Did I upset you wilf. Sorry. Posting on this forum seems to be the only enjoyment in your life in Oz. I dont want to ruin that. Can you tell us if theres anything about Oz that you do like?
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Old Sep 5th 2003, 10:26 pm   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by hamiltonnz
Did I upset you wilf. Sorry. Posting on this forum seems to be the only enjoyment in your life in Oz. I dont want to ruin that. Can you tell us if theres anything about Oz that you do like?
Posts befor mine came through after I wrote mine. my connection seems slow to load up new posts. my question to wilf has been answered. cheers
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