bourbon-biscuit

This is frying my brain. I can't get my head around it.
I basically want to know if it is an advantage, disadvantage or neutral (and ideally how)for an over-average student (e.g. bands 9 and above for yr 7 NAPLAN tests) to attend an average comp with average-ish results. I have heard competing things so I've tried to get my head around the moderation and ranking process online but it's beaten me. Forget about the social stuff and all that - I am just wanting input into how the HSC and ATAR results are impacted by the school, moderation, and ranking process.

Any thoughts? I know education is a topic that can make sparks fly so if it starts to get that way perhaps the thread could be shifted to another bit of the forum. Would REALLY appreciate any and all input!

carcajou

I'm not quite sure what you are asking. What do you mean by "average comp?" Also, can you clarify what your goal is - ie, are you asking because you are planning out your child's education etc. That impacts my reply.

bourbon-biscuit

It shouldn't really impact your reply because I am asking about the HSC grading system, which includes ranking and moderation, but I don't quite understand it.

Average comp is pretty straight forward in an Australian context: ICSEA of approx 1000 and results that fall within confidence intervals of similar Australian schools.

carcajou

I know what ICSEA is. I don't know what an "average comp" is. Do you mean "average comprehensive state school?"

bourbon-biscuit

Ah, sorry - I was using UK slang without even realising! Yes, a public high school.

carcajou

I am in another state, but looking at it, it seems they keep the class rank from the school assessment the same when they moderate the assessment (ie regardless of what happens in the exam, class rank will still be the same, even if they need to adjust the order back to the original one after the moderation process). The top school assessment mark is adjusted to match the top exam mark which theoretically smooths out any differences in how schools did their own assessment. The process to achieve the moderated mark from the school and exam assessments is a statistical formula/quadratic equation that I could not find - appears to be some kind of BOSTES secret sauce.

The impact in the scenario you described is unpredictable. I would not over-think it and put an above average child in an average school thinking they are going to bust the statistical curve against weaker competition and therefore be better off (if that is what you are getting at). More likely the weaker students bring down your own child - poor study habits can be infectious, especially if it's an environment where that is widespread, and I do not find Australian schools to be consistently willing to crack the whip and police that. Once that starts it's very hard to get it to stop - it's not like flipping a light switch. There also could be a few particularly strong students there, as outliers, who bust the curve anyways - so then you have the worst of both worlds, your child's own marks suffered and they didn't get the class rank anyways.

Whereas if your child has stronger competition, the same thing happens in reverse, they need to do more to keep up and are better off, and the school's bell curve shifts and caters to that.

Side note: The BOSTES secret sauce is awful. Understanding how marks are calculated should NEVER be that inaccessible to students and parents. Even if they did publish the secret sauce it would be incomprehensible to most people. The culture inside Departments of Education right now is that more complication makes everything better and also bureaucrats think that is how you show everyone you're a shining star. Parents and students should be able to look at their marks, look at the formula, and very quickly figure out where they are and what they need to do. Education isn't brain surgery but we are doing our best to turn it into that.

bourbon-biscuit

Thanks heaps for this reply, carcajou: very helpful and interesting.

The reason I wanted to understand it better is because she (DD2) is already at the school and on the whole quite happy there but someone I met recently who is sending their kid to the grammar (circa $20k per annum) suggested that doing so was a good insurance policy against flunking the exams and I didn't know how to reply to that at all. Your point about the culture of the classroom was always our biggest concern - and remains so - but we choose this school because the staff seem excellent and really care about the kids, it's very local, and because I had such ambivalence about DD1 attending private as a scholarship kid. I don't know if it's the best decision or whether she'll want to change: we're keeping an open policy. But I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me so I understand now that it's arguably/ possibly a double disadvantage for her, depending on various factors. It's certainly a minefield.

Thanks