How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Jun 23rd 2017, 9:58 am
#76
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,807
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Jun 23rd 2017, 10:07 am
#77
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
I wouldn't take Garry's synopsis of automation of GP's personally as you have. There is another thread on automation. You will see that Garry trips up in most places on this topic.
Automation has already done most of its job depletion to GP's. Dr Google.
And are GP jobs declining? No way. In fact every time I go to a GP, there's not an Australian GP in sight. All newly imported due to the GP shortage.
There's a few things will keep GP's alive.
1. Take your knee example. A GP can't fix a bung knee, but you need the GP for a referral to the specialist. The whole referral thing is a winner for GP's
2. Human and emotional interaction. You may have a physical ailment but humans need the human touch and reassurance from another human. On top of that humans need options and those options often revolve around ones personal and emotional circumstances. Can AI be taught that? Not in our lifetime. But if they did, and this is the scary part, you might be finding yourself emotionally attracted to bots.
Automation has already done most of its job depletion to GP's. Dr Google.
And are GP jobs declining? No way. In fact every time I go to a GP, there's not an Australian GP in sight. All newly imported due to the GP shortage.
There's a few things will keep GP's alive.
1. Take your knee example. A GP can't fix a bung knee, but you need the GP for a referral to the specialist. The whole referral thing is a winner for GP's
2. Human and emotional interaction. You may have a physical ailment but humans need the human touch and reassurance from another human. On top of that humans need options and those options often revolve around ones personal and emotional circumstances. Can AI be taught that? Not in our lifetime. But if they did, and this is the scary part, you might be finding yourself emotionally attracted to bots.
Jun 23rd 2017, 10:45 am
#78
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Does this mean after, (what I'm now teeming as...) "Albertagate," we're all good now? I do hope so. That was pretty horrendous in there and not at all like me. Well, until I'm pushed to my breaking point...and then I do fire back a bit! But generally I steer clear from confrontation. I'm only 5'2"!
Last edited by ABD79; Jun 23rd 2017 at 10:53 am.
Jun 23rd 2017, 11:40 am
#79
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
And yes, everything I said was well attested. Including the attack on NHSDirect and the empire building attacks on reform that the medical profession went through. Pity they succeeded, they pushed back reform by ten years at least, and cost many billions.
Eventually though ....
Jun 23rd 2017, 11:45 am
#80
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Yeah, sorry, that's what happens to threads after about the 2nd or 3rd pages - and as you can see, certain people want to spew ideology and generally argue the toss.
As I said on page 1, there is a surfeit of outdoors to be had if you want it. However if you want to stay in the cities (like the majority of australians) you can do that too.
If you want outdoors then maybe spend a few weeks in Kakadu, see how much outdoors you want. Compared to the UK there is plenty to be had.
As I said on page 1, there is a surfeit of outdoors to be had if you want it. However if you want to stay in the cities (like the majority of australians) you can do that too.
If you want outdoors then maybe spend a few weeks in Kakadu, see how much outdoors you want. Compared to the UK there is plenty to be had.
Jun 23rd 2017, 1:01 pm
#82
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
OK, if you don't want to talk seriously, I'll file you with the Beoz of this world then.
And yes, everything I said was well attested. Including the attack on NHSDirect and the empire building attacks on reform that the medical profession went through. Pity they succeeded, they pushed back reform by ten years at least, and cost many billions.
Eventually though ....
And yes, everything I said was well attested. Including the attack on NHSDirect and the empire building attacks on reform that the medical profession went through. Pity they succeeded, they pushed back reform by ten years at least, and cost many billions.
Eventually though ....
OK, if you don't want to agree with me, I'll file you with the Beoz of this world then.
Jun 23rd 2017, 3:56 pm
#83
I need a walk
Joined: Mar 2014
Location: Okanagan
Posts: 4,899
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Having worked for the NHS myself, and with a husband who works in the healthcare profession, I have to say your example of a child with a headache being taken to hospital in an ambulance is a very far fetched scenario. I have used NHS Direct on a number of occasions, as you'd expect with three children over nearly 7 years, and they were extremely thorough in ensuring that all information was taken and the right information was collected in order to give the suggestion of me taking them in to see a doctor. I can quite categorically say from my own experiences phoning them that if I ever called with such a common thing as my child having a headache, they would not have called an ambulance out! In fact, my eldest was unwell at 8 weeks old. I called NHS Direct as he had been whimpering all night and by morning had a temperature of 40 degrees. They said they'd ask a doctor, which they did with me on the phone and the doctor came on the phone and asked us to take our little boy to the walk-in centre. We did so and it was there that the doctor called an ambulance as she had suspected meningitis. In hospital, after a lumber puncture and further tests, it was confirmed he had swine flu. He was very sick and in hospital for nearly two weeks. They'd just had a baby die that week on his ward from swine flu.
NHS is a fantastic service and from what my husband has said speaking to doctors, it has alleviated a lot of time being used up unnecessarily in medical centres.
This aside, I have to say this is way off topic of this thread. Unless I'm missing something about a doctor in Canada and his experiences there in the medical profession having anything to do with life in Australia?
NHS is a fantastic service and from what my husband has said speaking to doctors, it has alleviated a lot of time being used up unnecessarily in medical centres.
This aside, I have to say this is way off topic of this thread. Unless I'm missing something about a doctor in Canada and his experiences there in the medical profession having anything to do with life in Australia?
From what you have posted, neither of you are/were in the clinical side of the NHS and so your comments are on the consumer aspect and feedback even from the users has shown that, since it's inception that it was an unmitigated disaster. It doesn't triage the patients successfully so costing the the NHS way more than it would cost to have an experienced clinician such as a doc/Nurse/Nurse practitioner/ECP. One of my kids had swine flu when they were young, they survived without hospital care- swine flu is not exactly meningitis
I love your comment re me posting from Canada- so on your reckoning, the likes of Pollyanna and Dorothy shouldn't post on the Canadian forum from Australia, Spouseofscouse/Mike/Shard etc shouldn't post from the UK, Novocastrian from UK/France, Pulaski and others from the US...
Funnily enough, this is a worldwide forum and weirdly we are not that insular not to talk to others around the globe without falling out big style....
It's gone considerably on a way off direction, that's for sure
Does this mean after, (what I'm now teeming as...) "Albertagate," we're all good now? I do hope so. That was pretty horrendous in there and not at all like me. Well, until I'm pushed to my breaking point...and then I do fire back a bit! But generally I steer clear from confrontation. I'm only 5'2"!
Does this mean after, (what I'm now teeming as...) "Albertagate," we're all good now? I do hope so. That was pretty horrendous in there and not at all like me. Well, until I'm pushed to my breaking point...and then I do fire back a bit! But generally I steer clear from confrontation. I'm only 5'2"!
I wouldn't take Garry's synopsis of automation of GP's personally as you have. There is another thread on automation. You will see that Garry trips up in most places on this topic.
Automation has already done most of its job depletion to GP's. Dr Google.
And are GP jobs declining? No way. In fact every time I go to a GP, there's not an Australian GP in sight. All newly imported due to the GP shortage.
There's a few things will keep GP's alive.
1. Take your knee example. A GP can't fix a bung knee, but you need the GP for a referral to the specialist. The whole referral thing is a winner for GP's
2. Human and emotional interaction. You may have a physical ailment but humans need the human touch and reassurance from another human. On top of that humans need options and those options often revolve around ones personal and emotional circumstances. Can AI be taught that? Not in our lifetime. But if they did, and this is the scary part, you might be finding yourself emotionally attracted to bots.
Automation has already done most of its job depletion to GP's. Dr Google.
And are GP jobs declining? No way. In fact every time I go to a GP, there's not an Australian GP in sight. All newly imported due to the GP shortage.
There's a few things will keep GP's alive.
1. Take your knee example. A GP can't fix a bung knee, but you need the GP for a referral to the specialist. The whole referral thing is a winner for GP's
2. Human and emotional interaction. You may have a physical ailment but humans need the human touch and reassurance from another human. On top of that humans need options and those options often revolve around ones personal and emotional circumstances. Can AI be taught that? Not in our lifetime. But if they did, and this is the scary part, you might be finding yourself emotionally attracted to bots.
Re say the knee, if it is totally goosed then yes they will need a new knee- otherwise, we refer on to physio, give them advice, cortisone shot and they typically do well- I cant see AI managing the latter for a few years yet..
OK, if you don't want to talk seriously, I'll file you with the Beoz of this world then.
And yes, everything I said was well attested. Including the attack on NHSDirect and the empire building attacks on reform that the medical profession went through. Pity they succeeded, they pushed back reform by ten years at least, and cost many billions.
Eventually though ....
And yes, everything I said was well attested. Including the attack on NHSDirect and the empire building attacks on reform that the medical profession went through. Pity they succeeded, they pushed back reform by ten years at least, and cost many billions.
Eventually though ....
Cheers Spouse
Last edited by christmasoompa; Jun 23rd 2017 at 3:59 pm. Reason: Let's try and let it go eh?
Jun 23rd 2017, 4:01 pm
#84
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,807
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
I love your comment re me posting from Canada- so on your reckoning, the likes of Pollyanna and Dorothy shouldn't post on the Canadian forum from Australia, Spouseofscouse/Mike/Shard etc shouldn't post from the UK, Novocastrian from UK/France, Pulaski and others from the US...
Funnily enough, this is a worldwide forum and weirdly we are not that insular not to talk to others around the globe without falling out big style....
Funnily enough, this is a worldwide forum and weirdly we are not that insular not to talk to others around the globe without falling out big style....
Venturing into other forums is more common now than it used to be, and really does add a new perspective to forum life!
Jun 23rd 2017, 6:05 pm
#85
Concierge
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 21,138
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
I really love this aspect of BE. Teaches people soooo much about other cultures, about the differences in things like humour and general attitude, about being an Expat in countries other than our own, and also shows us stuff we would never find out otherwise - cheese, cucumber, lettuce, coffee etc
Venturing into other forums is more common now than it used to be, and really does add a new perspective to forum life!
Venturing into other forums is more common now than it used to be, and really does add a new perspective to forum life!
Jun 23rd 2017, 7:34 pm
#86
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
I love your comment re me posting from Canada- so on your reckoning, the likes of Pollyanna and Dorothy shouldn't post on the Canadian forum from Australia, Spouseofscouse/Mike/Shard etc shouldn't post from the UK, Novocastrian from UK/France, Pulaski and others from the US...
Funnily enough, this is a worldwide forum and weirdly we are not that insular not to talk to others around the globe without falling out big style....
Funnily enough, this is a worldwide forum and weirdly we are not that insular not to talk to others around the globe without falling out big style....
Jun 23rd 2017, 10:13 pm
#87
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,040
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Cheers for that Beoz- not taken personally, I just responded to what he was spouting from his rear end Re say the knee, if it is totally goosed then yes they will need a new knee- otherwise, we refer on to physio, give them advice, cortisone shot and they typically do well- I cant see AI managing the latter for a few years yet..
Re say the knee, if it is totally goosed then yes they will need a new knee- otherwise, we refer on to physio, give them advice, cortisone shot and they typically do well- I cant see AI managing the latter for a few years yet..If AI can be taught emotion, humour, feelings, etc then you will see humans having relationships with bots. The physical aspect is an easy nut to crack, the emotional side not so.
Until that day, the world has a place for a GP.
Jun 23rd 2017, 11:47 pm
#88
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Talk seriously- after what you suggested, pot kettle and black springs to mind. "Well attested" come on Garry, you can do better than that, point me in the direction of the evidence otherwise what you say is meaningless. I stand by my comments about NHS Direct. Your paranoia against doctors is misguided, perhaps you should look at what actually is destroying the NHS, overburdening doctors with tick boxing, (and you wonder why I am and many other docs have/are leaving the NHS) mismanagement by the expensive and way too numerous NHS Trust managers and government intervention with what seems to be the eventual aim of privatising the NHS...
Seriously, I was looking at this area for over 2 years, talking to lots of people at all levels and seeing behaviours and attitudes that mean whenever someone suggests getting into the health market with an obvious idea to solve an obvious problem, I counsel them against it. It's an area that's so warped, politicised and corrupt that it's near impossible to make progress.
I think your attitude demonstrate well why I say that.
PS as most around here will tell you, I'm no fan of privatisation. However, if they do eventually hold up their hands and privatise it, it'll be mostly due to the impossibility of driving through reform to make it workable as the population ages. And I won't blame them.
Jun 24th 2017, 2:28 am
#89
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Okanagan Canada
Posts: 413
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
I engaged with you sensibly, giving you reasoning. What I got back in return was bile and a lack of perspective.
Seriously, I was looking at this area for over 2 years, talking to lots of people at all levels and seeing behaviours and attitudes that mean whenever someone suggests getting into the health market with an obvious idea to solve an obvious problem, I counsel them against it. It's an area that's so warped, politicised and corrupt that it's near impossible to make progress.
I think your attitude demonstrate well why I say that.
PS as most around here will tell you, I'm no fan of privatisation. However, if they do eventually hold up their hands and privatise it, it'll be mostly due to the impossibility of driving through reform to make it workable as the population ages. And I won't blame them.
Seriously, I was looking at this area for over 2 years, talking to lots of people at all levels and seeing behaviours and attitudes that mean whenever someone suggests getting into the health market with an obvious idea to solve an obvious problem, I counsel them against it. It's an area that's so warped, politicised and corrupt that it's near impossible to make progress.
I think your attitude demonstrate well why I say that.
PS as most around here will tell you, I'm no fan of privatisation. However, if they do eventually hold up their hands and privatise it, it'll be mostly due to the impossibility of driving through reform to make it workable as the population ages. And I won't blame them.
Not quite sure what you are suggesting?
That managers are pro reform and doctors aren't?
Have you any idea how frustrated we are at not being able to practice the absolute best evidenced based medicine?
I totally get that in a system like the NHS , there has to be some limitation but when managers/politicians make decisions for us it is galling and one of the reasons I had to get out. I have rules in Canada but I'm much more free to practice here than in the NHS.
For the record, nearly all doctors really don't like drug reps, I avoid as much as I can. In the UK, I never talked to them. In Canada I do, but only to ensure a flow of samples for my patients.
I try to stay as up to date as possible and use the best evidenced based websites on a daily basis.
If health care is "warped, politicised and corrupt" its not because of the workers- i.e. doctors, nurses, physios, OTs, radiographers, etc, it's because of the managers and successive governments of different persuasions. They are all as bad and use the NHS for their own ends.
As for AI replacing us, that is frankly a crazy idea.
Very little of my day today was spent diagnosing. But I did spend time with someone to break the news to her, hubby, daughters that she may have lung cancer. My knowledge of her as a human being and our relationship as human beings, gave me the ability to break that news in the way I knew she needed. Plus she knows I'm here for her going forward. Can a robot hug? Can a robot hold a hand when talking about distressing news?
I spent time with someone in hospice. I spent time talking to her distressed daughter on the phone.
I spent time with another palliative lady who needed me to rejig her meds and wanted to talk about what to expect in the future in ( I hope ) a compassionate way
And so it goes on...
I get that you obviously had a negative experience in the past and most of my words will go over your head and no doubt be twisted to suit your agenda, but I really don't care. I will defend my profession against the likes of you and I'm grateful that most Canadians ,and therefore my own patients, have totally the opposite opinion.
Jun 24th 2017, 3:12 am
#90
snɐןɔ ʎʇıuɐs
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,558
Re: How outdoorsie is Melbourne/Brisbane REALLY for a family?
Nope, they are just the refrain that I've heard before. Same ol' same ol'.
Remember, it's not my agenda, I got out of that arena because it was so dysfunctional and broken. The problem that was foreseen at the time was that the baby boomers were going to retire ~65, meaning less wage earners and tax payers at the same time as those now elderly baby boomers were at the most expensive part of their lives for medical services and support.
The two thing come together in a crunch that can't be fixed. You can't pile yet more money into healthcare, because the tax revenues are going down. So, either you cut healthcare, or you change the system. And to their credit the politicians tried to do the later - to revise the system so that the same level of care COULD be delivered to more people for less money.
And it got killed by the doctors. In combination with some horrible incompetence in the specification of the systems, by the doctors (not the managers, they didn't write the requirements). About the only bit that got through was NICE.
Guess what the only option left is now ...