iamthecreaturefromuranus

Seneca is of the the ilk that purports removing the States is some sort of Marxist plot by central government to snatch democracy from the people.
My brain shutdown at that point.

BadgeIsBack

How about keeping the brain open and looking in-depth to what people are saying and what lies beneath the surface? Rather than grasping and seizing a point and taking it literally -and throwing everything else away - have a think? You're not too subtle are you? It's not always about being right or wrong, it's digesting.
Sometimes people in the pub get things wrong. I mean they read tabloid papers which have a political agenda. The Sun newspaper has to be one of the most remarkable newspapers ever devised.

Buzzy--Bee

Eats socialists for breakfast mate.

BB

ex_exile

Bing! and we have a winner. Employers are fighting their own corner but this does not mean that their interests and the countries interests are the same as can be seen from the mining super tax dispute industry bleets loudly when they see their interests challenged.

Me neither, as part of that sustainability Australia needs to establish a few new cities outside of the state capitals, Sydney can not keep on expanding west forever, this will piss the greens off of course which is a bonus.

iamthecreaturefromuranus

... and I quote "Abolishing the states is a totally insane idea, designed by Marxists to further centralise power in Canberra and push the people further away from democracy"

I will now wander off and put my non too subtle brain in gear and look for what "lies beneath the surface" to that statement.

ex_exile

Ahh, student politics, I remember it well.

Its BS as well John Howards ex chief of staff was on Skynews Agenda a few weeks back supporting the idea that the states should be abolished in all but name, John Howard was probably not a marxist.

iamthecreaturefromuranus

Exactly. You can't have anything approaching a sensible discussion with political conspiracy theorists. Anything you put up as a counterpoint is answered with "but you're not in the loop" or "you haven't a clue about what's happening behind the scenes". It's like trying to discuss religion with a zealot. Impossible.

balkanghost

Here is my essay of the week....

Much of the "debate" in the media looks at symptons and not causes of issues related to concern about immigration and population. Underlying has been a concerted campaign for many years now known as "dog whistling" through real and unsubstantiated claims in the mainstream media about refugees (queue jumpers), immigrants (overseas student rorting) through a legal system of regulations designed by DIAC (backdoor migration) and managed by state governments, runaway immigration growth (temporary population included in data) etc. etc. used to alarm people i.e. voters (who then become compliant).

This has been achieved by borrowing methods from American conservative (christian) politics and media e.g. introduction of "intelligent design" into schools, being a euphemism for kookey creationism, in the mainstream education curriculum.... and knowing how to create wedge issues from non issues for short term political purposes...

The worst part is that complaints of congestion and overcrowding etc. in three general regions i.e. SE QLD, Sydney and Melbourne (and water shortages, environmental concern etc.) are being blamed upon immigration and lets incompetent politicans and civil servants off the hook for not taking difficult decisions and planning.... with pollies seemingly terrified of the electorate i.e. following by pandering to base instincts as opposed to leading, i.e. planning and explaining policy.

Nor have Australians' own lifestyles been questioned i.e. ever bigger houses, cars, debt and consumption..... and we are left choosing between political parties like Coica Cola and Pepsi.... no wonder the Greens are gaining traction....

BadgeIsBack

It supported champagne socialists at one point.

It also serves up little stories and advise carefully designed to relieve the troubled readership that their existences have meaning. As long as 'your hubby' has a white van and 'Dear Deary' has ideas to solve domestic tedium then life is good. BE reminds me of Dear Deary sometimes. The Sun glorifies the UK battler.

The Sun is a Marxist wet dream.

Seneca21

Excellent points and good advice for The Thing who totally over-reacted when I posited my views on the abolition of the states. I would have taken his reaction more seriously if I thought for one moment he knew what Marxism actually is.

To the guy who brought up John Howard - you don't have to be a Marxist to have a Marxist idea. Centralisation of power in one city and the concomitant distancing of the citizenry from democracy is a Marxist fantasy, totally irrespective of whose head it is in. If John Howard thinks this is a good idea then he has something in common with Marxists.

ozzieeagle

Wasnt one the points of abolishing States, in creating super Councils similar to the GLC so as to give people more power locally ? Rather than the wishy washy Council system we have in this Country now ?

iamthecreaturefromuranus

One of the problems of putting a twonk like Seneca on your ignore list is you get to see their post when one of the sensible people respond to them.

It was certainly the case for the Illawarra, that they were hoping/suggesting that they would stand to benefit significantly, in both monetary terms and control over their own priorities, if NSW State council was abolished and many of its functions split between Federal and local control.

Not sure how the folks in Victoria view the State council, but it certainly seems to be the feeling in this part of regional NSW, that NSW State is all about Sydney and the rest of us an afterthought.

ozzieeagle

I'd much prefer a State Council scheme. If there has been one recurring topic that I come back to, It's how I reckon the State system has held this country back in major infrastructure projects. Like Water Grids and Railway links.

How bloody shameful is it, that there isn't a decent express train service between Melbourne and Sydney.

iamthecreaturefromuranus

Those major, nation building projects, should be under Canberra's control. They should be able to drive through stuff like the water network that the country seems to badly need at times. Inter State fighting has held that stuff back and will probably always do so. until State powers in those areas are removed.

Never mind an express line between Melb and Syd. Wollongong is only 80k South of Sydney. It's NSW third biggest city and the ninth largest in Australia.... it takes almost two hours by train from the 'Gong to Sydney!!

38141

'Australian' is whatever you define it, but like everything else, when you change it, it no longer remains the same. It changes because you are importing people from other nations and cultural backgrounds.

That is what we are talking about here, people coming and going is enormous numbers. What do you call a doubling of a country's population in 40 yrs?

There is no point in having a country if you are going to accept/invite other people from all over the world to live in it. If you don't agree, then you tell me so seneca why anyone would want to create a country, please?