chilli

git

i was gonna be nice about wigan next

OzTennis

London is a city of 7.5 million and traditionally they have had 4 top football teams. So what if the Hammers have a big fan base? So what if they have a bigger 'hard core' support than Chelsea (Chelsea draw over 40K now with the ground improvement anyway, Man Utd over 70K who gives a monkey if they are 'hard core' or pot hunters)? So what if 20 or 30K watch them in the second tier?

If I was one of their supporters I would want to see some trophies (other than C'ship), some quality on the field and a bit more than the wonderful Hammers tradition of playing the beautiful game and singing about f*****g in the bath and how few managers they've had since the War! I'd want to see stability in the board room (ex Chairman resigned from board today ahead of some probe). I'd also be wondering what the point in supporting them is when any quality players or managers that come along like Frankie, Germaine, Michael, Jamie and Harry etc are sold to their nearest rivals (sacked in Harry's case).

Melbourne has 9 clubs, less than half the population of London (let alone all the tens of millions within striking distance of London) and the lowest of the 9, my Western Bulldogs, gets crowds like or more than WH* and would have as many members. Do Orient, Brentford etc draw more than 5K to a match? (no is the answer).

*admittedly an Aussie Rules ground is bigger so has more space to hold spectators. WH are in talks to play at the new Olympic stadium which might be white elephant territory if they don't get a better team.
OzTennis

OzTennis

Oh and I saw an interesting article on the north/south divide and how the football map would change IF Watford, West Ham and Charlton were all relegated and given that no London club can come up and if Sunderland and other northern teams were promoted etc - how many fewer London derby matches there would be and how much extra travelling the 4 left would have to do and so on. Troubled times for the capital.

There's a arithmetical challenge for anyone to take up - how many derby matches are played between 6 teams compared to 3 (Fulham aren't safe and it could be them instead of one of the above).

OzTennis

OzTennis

I've seen you say this before, some observations:

1. Physical contests and skill are not mutually exclusive things as you imply.
2. Teams of circus clowns or even individual clowns do not compete against each other with a scoring system to designate the winner. Put that element in and maybe more would go to the circus?
3. What one perceives as 'noble' will vary from person to person, obviously, as you admit with your 'this is my bias'.
4. AFL and NRL are clearly faster moving games, involving (legal) tackling and bumping and hence by definition require a different type and level of fitness to say union or soccer . You could pick a Union 'push arses' type of person but what would they do in such games? Only NRL gives scope to push arses and this is just a few times in a game. You could pick a George Best, 9 stone weakling type who can twinkle past their opponents in soccer but would be off on a stretcher within minutes in other codes
5. For me, I can also see a lot in a Federer vs Nadal or a Borg vs McEnroe contest. It doesn't have your requirements of depending on your mates or teamwork but it has many other 'noble' qualities. One against one, totally on the line, skill and movement and conditioning to the fore.
6. To someone else - since when does Theo Walcott run 100 metres on a football field? We train tennis players to run a maximum of 40 feet as quickly as possible (you never move more) and repetitively and sideways, backwards, forwards etc because it isn't all straight line, long distance speed that counts in most sports (unless we're talking 100 metres athletics).
7. Unless you've done it you have no idea the physical effort required to hit a serve well over 100 mph or to play a 5 set match at a high level (even with a break every couple of games and time between points). Try that too at Melbourne Park in January with a courtside temperature over 140 degrees F and your trainers and feet literally burning!

Just a few things to discuss me maties!

OzTennis

fraser

Dear oh dear Harry was sacked for lining his own pocket and I have no idea to which Jamie you refer.

BTW jond is a Chelsea fan and by his own admission he obviously cared.

Oh and believe it or not most clubs don't like the derbies, too unpredictable.
I'd stick to talking about tennis if I were you as you clearly know nothing about football.

Then again if you wish to keep amusing me carry on, I like a good laugh in the morning

chilli

oz t
tennis is one game where different sizes can compete.
i did stewarding at wimbledon and have stood alongside most of them.
phillipousis is a moving mountain but McEnroe and Borg, both little'uns, would beat him.

the length of the game without a week to recover between games must put tennis players in the big league of fitness. but, they dont take the contact of other sports.
interesting


everyone will test at 100 m
it is the standard that we all want to know..

(i was in the pub at wimbledon when in came phillipousis and pat rafter.
they stayed for a while .. rafter was at his peak at the time)
true people, i swear to it (dog and fox)

ozzieeagle

Oi there is still an outside chance for Palace, they have done it from this position in the season twice now.


They wont stay up though

BadgeIsBack

I did not want to imply physical contests and skill are not mutually exclusive. But an repeat argument heard here is that there is no skill in say AFL which I think is ridiculous - infact the attraction of AFL is that it has both 'physical' and 'skill' but I've made my views heard...

Looking at tennis players right arms I can well imagine the effort involved - can imagine the tendon and ligament strain involved.

You're right some sports need very specific conditioning.

BadgeIsBack

A woodentop eh?! Alot of guardsman I met were tall - wasn't the official height actually 5ft 10, and didn't they organise some companies by height? (I'd be interested to know) but not necessarily big - for infantry though carrying weight can be a pain and not necessarily a good thing. I've met few soldiers in the line regiments big and tall. Soldiers who seemed to be 'big' - bulk - were Marines - not all of them - and paras on average tended to be slightly smaller and lighter but nonetheless very compact and strong out of proportion to height - with the occasional big man - compared to the rest of the infantry.

BadgeIsBack

Saw some teenage girls racing the 100m on tv a few weeks ago - amazed at how fast they were- but at that distance a second is a long time........

hevs

Thats a very valid point dear OT!

The turn out for the pre season Carlton /Essendon game was just short or 29,000!

Just a quick observation for the Dogs, i reckon its gonna be a cracking year for your boys

I'm gonna be taking my son along to the doggies matches a LOT more this year as i don't reckon i can bear goning to too many Essendon games

jond

Oh and believe it or not most clubs don't like the derbies, too unpredictable.



This is true, most tend to end up in a bit of a scrap and the points are often shared.

There was a theory out years ago that this was why more titles were won by northern clubs as they don't play as many derbies. There could be an element of truth in this as you drop so many points when playing your local rivals

OzTennis

The article about the demise of football in the south was in the Times and it said how the southern clubs would have much smaller revenue streams next season and increased costs because of what I said.

You are not seriously telling me the Hammers are not wishing to play derbies against Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Fulham but prefer to go to Hull (and back)? Go on, say it, you want the Hammers relegated to avoid the London derbies.

Rednapp - still a good manager (as shown at Portsmouth), was cleared today of betting involvement anyway, was it 'bungs' for transfers? Many managers 'line their own pocket', many known, many have covered their tracks.

Errata - son Jamie wasn't at WH but presumably you'll take my point that they sell their best talent? Why, if they are so well supported as you claim, do they sell their best to what you say are their less supported brethren?

OzTennis

OzTennis

There's been another theory going around that Man Utd and Liverpool have been better teams for yonks and it is nothing to do with the number of southern derbies!

The picture has changed in recent years thanks to Russian money and Portugese coaching ability.

OzTennis

fraser

Redknapp bought numerous players who had the same agent, his son.

As for selling the players, we had a greedy chairman with no ambition.

As for the derbies of course I'd rather play those teams never said otherwise. My point was having more London top flight teams does not strengthen their chances but has the opposite affect.

If Pards had kept his cock in his pants we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.

Be interesting to see if the injunction is ever lifted.