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Figures for those with property in the UK

Figures for those with property in the UK

Old Dec 9th 2003, 4:08 am
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Default Figures for those with property in the UK

Figures for those with property in the UK
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 8:48 am
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Smile Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

Originally posted by bondipom
Figures for those with property in the UK
Thats a good chart. I see that im mr average.

My morgage payment is around 19% of my net income.

It will be interesting to see how much others pay on this site and also how much they plan on borrowing in oz.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 9:40 am
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We pay under 14%, but we overpay - we could drop to 9% if we wanted to.

We bought our house 4 years ago and it has increased by 110% in value since then - we would have moved up the ladder by now if we weren't moving to Oz.

Mortgages are different in Oz so I'm not sure how much I would borrow. They function as your bank account in some respects. I think Yorkshire Bank has a similar product and other banks were considering doing the same however I know that my employers plans to introduce this type of mortgage were dropped at the last minute due to low customer interest.

From some of the web based tools I have used it appears that you can borrow more in Oz than you can here (proportionaly) - I was wondering if this was because of the type of mortgage that they offer.

Anyone know?
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 9:47 am
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

Originally posted by bondipom
Figures for those with property in the UK
In the news over the last few days has been the findings of a report commissioned by the government into mortgages and interest rates. The main finding of the Professor chappy who did the report is that loyal mortgage holders are being ripped off by the banks and building societies who are offering lower interest rates to new customers or those who switch their mortgage.

One recommendation is that Britain in the long term should move towards the US system of fixed I/R long term mortgages. The banks and building societies are bracing themselves for the likely changes that will arise as a result of the report (2nd instalment due out soon). The same thing happens with credit cards as well and the banks are expecting some legislation to curb the lower I/R's for those who switch cards, for the first 12 months etc.

Imagine being a loyal customer in a shop and a new customer comes in and buys the same thing you have been buying regularly for a lower price. :scared:

Obviously businesses do it to attract new customers but it isn't fair or morally right and hopefully soon will be illegal.

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 10:41 am
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

seems low...

most of my mates are paying at least 50 pc of income, on a 1 bedder, and that was at 3.99 per cent.

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 11:12 am
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

yes, its called competition and a free market. most australians are not too familar with these concepts so struggle to understand how it operates.

just wonder how happy people are going to be when they realise their wonderful government has replaced the most competitive and lowest cost mortgage market in the world for long term inflexible and expensive fixed rates. US has base rates at 1% but mortgage rates are typically 5%+ at the moment and going up. I can walk into a high street bank in England and pick up a discounted rate of below 3%. Most Australians would be happy with the 5% !!!! let alone what the English can obtain.






Originally posted by OzTennis
In the news over the last few days has been the findings of a report commissioned by the government into mortgages and interest rates. The main finding of the Professor chappy who did the report is that loyal mortgage holders are being ripped off by the banks and building societies who are offering lower interest rates to new customers or those who switch their mortgage.

One recommendation is that Britain in the long term should move towards the US system of fixed I/R long term mortgages. The banks and building societies are bracing themselves for the likely changes that will arise as a result of the report (2nd instalment due out soon). The same thing happens with credit cards as well and the banks are expecting some legislation to curb the lower I/R's for those who switch cards, for the first 12 months etc.

Imagine being a loyal customer in a shop and a new customer comes in and buys the same thing you have been buying regularly for a lower price. :scared:

Obviously businesses do it to attract new customers but it isn't fair or morally right and hopefully soon will be illegal.

OzTennis
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 11:17 am
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

Originally posted by dugongs
yes, its called competition and a free market. most australians are not too familar with these concepts so struggle to understand how it operates.

just wonder how happy people are going to be when they realise their wonderful government has replaced the most competitive and lowest cost mortgage market in the world for long term inflexible and expensive fixed rates. US has base rates at 1% but mortgage rates are typically 5%+ at the moment and going up. I can walk into a high street bank in England and pick up a discounted rate of below 3%. Most Australians would be happy with the 5% !!!! let alone what the English can obtain.
Er... so that's why the practises are probably going to be referred to the MMC???

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 11:29 am
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

Its political and part of a wider desire by this government to integrate with Europe - if they can kill the housing market then it helps them. Its hard to see how this market is not competitive and anybody can remortgage at any time. Do you think that people in the US do not remortgage. They do when the rates are low - exactly the reason NAB just blew a billion bucks by failing to manage and control their US ex-sub.

In the UK market you have choice. If you want deals which are not cross subsidised then you can take a loan with Nationwide B/Soc (a mutual) or Egg etc which all have a very low standard rate available to all. If you choose a very low below market rate with long tie-in then thats your choice if you want a slightly higher rate with no tie in then thats your choice.

Its all about choice. The best way to explain this to an Australian is perhaps to ask you to imagine instead of the four pillars protected by the government offering artificially higher rates you had loads of banks and brokers and insurance companies and building societies all trying to win business by offering competitive market rates. Well thats the UK.



Originally posted by OzTennis
Er... so that's why the practises are probably going to be referred to the MMC???

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 11:54 am
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

Originally posted by dugongs
Its political and part of a wider desire by this government to integrate with Europe - if they can kill the housing market then it helps them. Its hard to see how this market is not competitive and anybody can remortgage at any time. Do you think that people in the US do not remortgage. They do when the rates are low - exactly the reason NAB just blew a billion bucks by failing to manage and control their US ex-sub.

In the UK market you have choice. If you want deals which are not cross subsidised then you can take a loan with Nationwide B/Soc (a mutual) or Egg etc which all have a very low standard rate available to all. If you choose a very low below market rate with long tie-in then thats your choice if you want a slightly higher rate with no tie in then thats your choice.

Its all about choice. The best way to explain this to an Australian is perhaps to ask you to image instead of the four pillars protected by the government offering artificially higher rates you had loads of banks and brokers and insurance companies and building societies all trying to win business by offering competitive market rates. Well thats the UK.
Competition eh! That's what was introduced into the 192 directory enquiries service right. Most people were happy with it when BT had a monopoly and it was 'free' (not really because it encouraged more phone use and hence revenue for BT).

Then someone said (probably Mrs T or Tony, there isn't much difference) - let's have competition to shake up this evil monopoly. So we now have over 20 118 services - plenty of competition, good for the consumer. Wrong!

A recent report said that 60% of enquiries to the different 118 numbers were given the wrong number and various practices were unearthed. One enterprising operator at 118 118 decided that he would give everyone the number of the local Pizza Hut so he could meet his targets, get bonuses and people would ring back a second time and pay the company twice.

Operators were instructed at the various companies to 'kill' the calls before a minute was up because the charging was a high flat rate and then so much per minute so customers on their second minute were not providing as much revenue as customers on their first call. A local 118 company in South West Scotland set up a new call centre and has just shed 300 jobs less than 6 months into the new service.

Next we hear that many of the jobs in the new companies are being outsourced to India where wages are 1/10 of what they are in the UK. The cream of India's graduates are working in call centres with 60% p.a. labour turnover - and being paid more than doctors earn in India. Competition again eh? (I had an extremely frustrating call to ebookers this weekend and spoke to an Amit in Bangalore about cheap fares advertised in the paper and gave up after 10 minutes but that's another story - ebookers outsourced 2,300 jobs to India).

Anyway are these examples of the wonderful competition and market forces to which you allude?

Oh, I don't know how a loyal customer can ever be happy with paying higher interest rates than a new customer. Move your mortgage you'll probably say, don't stay with any provider than longer than you have to, choice, choice. Makes you wonder why UK growth rates are lower than those in Australia since 1990 doesn't it. I don't buy the Australian economy is small, not in G7, so growth is easy argument BTW.

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 12:13 pm
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

OK well bury your head in the sand if you want.

BT was never free it cost money for the service in recent years. 25 pence a time for 2 numbers. Good value which they seem unable to continue now. Move to Onetel and it is now free - surely that is a benefit of competition.

Funny to see on the news the other night that the growth in Indian call centres is outstripping the supply of suitable people who firstly have the desired education and spoken english and secondly are able to stick the job for longer than six months. Apparently turnover rates in Indian call centres are higher than UK ones as they are recruiting the wrong types of people. The bright ones will never be able to work in a call centre as it is too controlled an environment. I for one are very anti call centres now and prefer to move my business away from them if i can help it. No doubt you were using them to get a cheap price and good luck to you thats the free market but the lowest cost provider is not always the best.

One other thing it is interesting to note that using HSBC it's current UK variable rate for loans less than 250k is 4.97% which is a spread of less than 1% to cost of funds. In Australia the same variable rate is 6.97% (most are higher at 7.09%) which represents a spread of 2%. Oz are restricted in the intro deals the lenders can offer due to government regulations. Even if the special intro rates are withdrawn in the UK it's hard to imagine the spread lowering beyond 1% so rates will stay roughly the same.






I don't buy the Australian economy is small, not in G7, so growth is easy argument BTW.

OzTennis [/QUOTE]

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 1:12 pm
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

Originally posted by dugongs
OK well bury your head in the sand if you want.

BT was never free it cost money for the service in recent years. 25 pence a time for 2 numbers. Good value which they seem unable to continue now. Move to Onetel and it is now free - surely that is a benefit of competition.

Funny to see on the news the other night that the growth in Indian call centres is outstripping the supply of suitable people who firstly have the desired education and spoken english and secondly are able to stick the job for longer than six months. Apparently turnover rates in Indian call centres are higher than UK ones as they are recruiting the wrong types of people. The bright ones will never be able to work in a call centre as it is too controlled an environment. I for one are very anti call centres now and prefer to move my business away from them if i can help it. No doubt you were using them to get a cheap price and good luck to you thats the free market but the lowest cost provider is not always the best.





I don't buy the Australian economy is small, not in G7, so growth is easy argument BTW.

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[/QUOTE]

I realise 192 latterly had a charge, previously it was free and as I said it gave BT more trade anyway when it was supposedly 'free'.

I use One-Tel myself and have done so since they started in the UK (went 'bust' in Oz of course thanks to the likes of Jodie Rich and the UK operation was bought by a large company) - you'll find if you look at the fine print that their 118 is free to customers until a certain date next year. I realise that I enjoy my 4p per minute calls to Australia because the market was opened up to competition.

I would just make the point that competition isn't the be all and end all panacae to the provision of all things. We all know how certain essential services either will not provided; not provided in sufficient quantities; provided at too high a price if left to private enterprise etc. We have a mixed economy not laissez-faire after all, if competition was so powerful a force we would have the latter.

My experience with the Indian call centre was unintential and arose out of an ad for cheap fares in The Times newspaper. I rang the London number and got put through to Amit in Bangalore (I deliberately asked him where he was based when I realised I was talking via satellite).

The conversation went something like this - 'I'm phoning about the £549 Malaysian Airlines fare advertised in The Times. I wish to travel from Manchester on a certain date, to Melbourne, returning on a certain date and it is for 2 passengers'. Which airline sir? Malaysian! Which paper sir? The Times! How much did we quote? £549! When do you want to go? Where from? Where to? When do you want to come back? How many tickets sir?....... on and on it went.

I said it was advertised as a 5 day sale so I needed to complete this by Tuesday if I am going to book it. 'You want to go for 5 days not 38 days sir'? 'No Amit, the fare is offered for 5 days, not for 5 days travel'. 'But you said you want to go for 38 days sir which is it'?... and on and on it went. The sealer was that they were offering 2 free nights in a hotel in Penang or Langkawi. 'I wouldn't stay there sir it is only a bad 1 star hotel and you will have to pay for your transfer.... oh and it is just coming up now you have to pay another £60 to fly from Manchester or Glasgow'. 'I will give you my London phone number if you want to get back to me'. 'Thank you and good evening Amit (I guess it's morning for you eh?)!!!

Moral of the story - deal with Quest or Austravel or someone who doesn't outsource and you'll get someone who knows what they are talking about. Anyway I diverge.

I don't think I'm burying my head in the sand BTW just because I don't share your (what appear to be) free market views and those you hold on Australia. It's a very interesting debate and exchange of views though and one that I am enjoying.

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 1:26 pm
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i thought i bought well, and i still believe i did, with this house i'm in now. My mortgage is just under 25% or my earnings and valued at over 2 times the mortgage value. Not a bad increase in less that 2 years.

The graph is probably based on dual income earnings as well, this distorts the figures for us single income folks. which would explain a few things in my case.
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 1:33 pm
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Originally posted by scutterUK
i thought i bought well, and i still believe i did, with this house i'm in now. My mortgage is just under 25% or my earnings and valued at over 2 times the mortgage value. Not a bad increase in less that 2 years.

The graph is probably based on dual income earnings as well, this distorts the figures for us single income folks. which would explain a few things in my case.
Yep, I guess it is based on household income which of course could be 1 person upwards and distorts the picture for you as you say.

We are sitting on 0% because we've paid off our mortgages in UK and Oz so are pleased to be out of that particular rat race. We made sure we had mortgages which didn't have penalties for early settlement.

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Old Dec 9th 2003, 1:33 pm
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

yeah me to.

agreed competition is'nt the be all and end all and i would never want uk or oz to become like the us. still believe the motivation to change the uk mortgage market is more political than in the consumers interests but there you go.

how about using flight centre - they are after all a true aussie success story - used them in oz and they were excellent although not the cheapest but not by much. i am also pretty sure they only use local staff as they use a branch distribution model.



Originally posted by OzTennis
I realise 192 latterly had a charge, previously it was free and as I said it gave BT more trade anyway when it was supposedly 'free'.

I use One-Tel myself and have done so since they started in the UK (went 'bust' in Oz of course thanks to the likes of Jodie Rich and the UK operation was bought by a large company) - you'll find if you look at the fine print that their 118 is free to customers until a certain date next year. I realise that I enjoy my 4p per minute calls to Australia because the market was opened up to competition.

I would just make the point that competition isn't the be all and end all panacae to the provision of all things. We all know how certain essential services either will not provided; not provided in sufficient quantities; provided at too high a price if left to private enterprise etc. We have a mixed economy not laissez-faire after all, if competition was so powerful a force we would have the latter.

My experience with the Indian call centre was unintential and arose out of an ad for cheap fares in The Times newspaper. I rang the London number and got put through to Amit in Bangalore (I deliberately asked him where he was based when I realised I was talking via satellite).

The conversation went something like this - 'I'm phoning about the £549 Malaysian Airlines fare advertised in The Times. I wish to travel from Manchester on a certain date, to Melbourne, returning on a certain date and it is for 2 passengers'. Which airline sir? Malaysian! Which paper sir? The Times! How much did we quote? £549! When do you want to go? Where from? Where to? When do you want to come back? How many tickets sir?....... on and on it went.

I said it was advertised as a 5 day sale so I needed to complete this by Tuesday if I am going to book it. 'You want to go for 5 days not 38 days sir'? 'No Amit, the fare is offered for 5 days, not for 5 days travel'. 'But you said you want to go for 38 days sir which is it'?... and on and on it went. The sealer was that they were offering 2 free nights in a hotel in Penang or Langkawi. 'I wouldn't stay there sir it is only a bad 1 star hotel and you will have to pay for your transfer.... oh and it is just coming up now you have to pay another £60 to fly from Manchester or Glasgow'. 'I will give you my London phone number if you want to get back to me'. 'Thank you and good evening Amit (I guess it's morning for you eh?)!!!

Moral of the story - deal with Quest or Austravel or someone who doesn't outsource and you'll get someone who knows what they are talking about. Anyway I diverge.

I don't think I'm burying my head in the sand BTW just because I don't share your (what appear to be) free market views and those you hold on Australia. It's a very interesting debate and exchange of views though and one that I am enjoying.

OzTennis [/QUOTE]
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Old Dec 9th 2003, 1:53 pm
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Default Re: Figures for those with property in the UK

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dugongs



We've used 3 agents primarily - we've used Quest a lot, last 4 or 5 times (fantastic service from a girl called Jo Twyman who is now in the Kingston office but was in York and thoroughly recommended to everyone); Travelbag (although they were taken over by ebookers recently - enough said); and Airline Network. We also used an outfit called Reho Travel a couple of times which went into liquidation (and Qantas took over the booking on the last occasion).

I will give the Flight Centre a try as you suggest - they won't be 'clubby' or 'arrogant' though will they?

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