Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Feb 5th 2006, 4:15 pm
#121
A lion in your lap
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Sparta NJ
Posts: 7,605
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by Vash the Stampede
I suggest you run along find the necessary statistics
This is from your own government (2003 figures):
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/f...gures_2004.pdf
Homicide 341
Assault 158,629
Sexual assault 18,237
Robbery 19,719
Burglary 353,419
Car theft 98,813
other theft 638,968
fraud & deception 103,199
drugs 82,000*
Total 1,473,335 (and remember this is still not an exhaustive list of all crimes)
Actual population of Australia: 20,400,000
Which gives 72.2 crimes per 1,000 people and takes you up to 13th in the league table.
My point here is not to try to demonstrate that Australia is some kind of crime-ridden hellhole (it clearly isn't), but that it's nowhere near as far from Britain as you'd like to think.
You also seem to have something of a short memory when it comes to the early successes of the One Nation party.
*came from different Source
Feb 5th 2006, 5:17 pm
#122
It's not my real name....
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: London, but wish it was down under
Posts: 178
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by elfman
My point here is not to try to demonstrate that Australia is some kind of crime-ridden hellhole (it clearly isn't), but that it's nowhere near as far from Britain as you'd like to think.
But I think I'd rather live in a country where the people are much friendlier, the weather is tonnes better, the lifestyle wins hands down, you don't have to worry about having your head kicked in by a bunch of 11 year olds and your national rugby team is any good!!
Crime is something you're never going to escape, no matter where you go (I thought I'd done that by coming here from South Africa).
It's a part of life that unfortunately has to be dealt with.
I know where I'd rather be!!!
Feb 5th 2006, 5:28 pm
#123
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Location: In de bush
Posts: 756
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by jad n rich
Your right about teams, its a pity, its had the effect that theres now very little posted about news, political issues, things that affect those living here, funding issues, events, general happenings etc , probably because of the 'team' problem. Example the health system, its problems and proposed changes are in the media here daily, yet nobody would dare :scared: discuss that on this forum, they would not survive the onslaught of thats not right mate, despite the fact its slapped all over every national newspaper. 
Even food cost threads are considered contentious 
As a few others said recently there should be a forum for those who do live in OZ and want to discuss news/events openly without having to worry about offending anyone or plough through lots of UK posts to get to them.
Even food cost threads are considered contentious As a few others said recently there should be a forum for those who do live in OZ and want to discuss news/events openly without having to worry about offending anyone or plough through lots of UK posts to get to them.
Jad/Rich
I would love some links or whatever info you can provide re ANY of the above issues. I am not one to bury my head in the sand and have been actively researchiing everything I can for the last 3 years.
I for one will not shoot you down in flames cos you've posted something I otherwise thought was the opposite. Any info greatly appreciated
Andy
Feb 5th 2006, 5:29 pm
#124
one day rodders !!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Helensvale where else!
Posts: 2,216
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by coolie
I don't think anybody expects a crime free country. I think we're all adult enough to realise this.
But I think I'd rather live in a country where the people are much friendlier, the weather is tonnes better, the lifestyle wins hands down, you don't have to worry about having your head kicked in by a bunch of 11 year olds and your national rugby team is any good!!
Crime is something you're never going to escape, no matter where you go (I thought I'd done that by coming here from South Africa).
It's a part of life that unfortunately has to be dealt with.
I know where I'd rather be!!!
But I think I'd rather live in a country where the people are much friendlier, the weather is tonnes better, the lifestyle wins hands down, you don't have to worry about having your head kicked in by a bunch of 11 year olds and your national rugby team is any good!!
Crime is something you're never going to escape, no matter where you go (I thought I'd done that by coming here from South Africa).
It's a part of life that unfortunately has to be dealt with.
I know where I'd rather be!!!
well said coolie
jan xx
Feb 5th 2006, 5:55 pm
#125
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Millswood, Adelaide, OZ
Posts: 58
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
I agree with you all! This country just isn't what it used to be. I'm 32 and cam remember street parties and knowing every neighbours name and if an old lady told you off, it made you cry and run home. Not anymore though. I can't say that Oz is completely the opposite of here, but from my experience, it's a whole lot better. It's all about having respect for your country and your home and being proud of who you are and where you come from. It'll be a long hard fight to bring the UK round again.
Sorry - had a glass of red and it's made me ramble!!!
Sorry - had a glass of red and it's made me ramble!!!
Originally Posted by robos
Hi everyone just thought i would share this with you. As some of you know we are well underway with the migration process after many years of putting it off. During the application process we have had much soul searching and scary decisions to face and overcome, as do all potential migrants in our position. Ultimately we want to give our 3 children a better chance in life and see Oz as a better prospect than where we are at present. Where we do live is considered a lovely quiet village, which it is! and i considered everything to be fine as none of the family ever mentioned anything (Until last night)!!!!!:scared:
Turns out that for the past 12 months the kids and wife (Jan) have all been increasingly unhappy with where we live and the surrounding area. The kids in particular are regularly threatened by local gangs of louts who live nearby, in fact its got that bad they say that unless we take them and pick them up then they will not go out. My eldest son, (16) and the most pleasent kid around, is even being threatened by a gang of 12 year olds (can you believe that)!!!!! I laugh but these kids are nutters who really believe they are hard. My lad can handle himself but feels intimidated by the fact that these idiots would ultimately turn to there extended family if he retaliated. (No win situation) It really is unbearable as far as the kids are concerned.
They used to have a busy social life, including Ice skating every week, but its got that bad now that there are regular fights there and a constant police presence, (nice way to spend a Friday evening)!!!
Anyway my point is that i felt shocked at finding this out as we live in such a nice place (apparently). But it did make me feel that what we are doing is definately the right thing to do. What i am trying to say is that this country now seems to be breeding people who cant or wont communicate with others, and will lash out in the blink of an eye, and seem to thrive on confrontation. Some might say that we should fight back, but me I think we are better than that. Its confirmed it for us now, come on D.I.M.I.A Get us out of here!!!!!!!!
Does anybody else feel the same or had a similar eye opener lately? Sorry to ramble but had to share my feelings with you all.
Gary.
Turns out that for the past 12 months the kids and wife (Jan) have all been increasingly unhappy with where we live and the surrounding area. The kids in particular are regularly threatened by local gangs of louts who live nearby, in fact its got that bad they say that unless we take them and pick them up then they will not go out. My eldest son, (16) and the most pleasent kid around, is even being threatened by a gang of 12 year olds (can you believe that)!!!!! I laugh but these kids are nutters who really believe they are hard. My lad can handle himself but feels intimidated by the fact that these idiots would ultimately turn to there extended family if he retaliated. (No win situation) It really is unbearable as far as the kids are concerned.
They used to have a busy social life, including Ice skating every week, but its got that bad now that there are regular fights there and a constant police presence, (nice way to spend a Friday evening)!!!
Anyway my point is that i felt shocked at finding this out as we live in such a nice place (apparently). But it did make me feel that what we are doing is definately the right thing to do. What i am trying to say is that this country now seems to be breeding people who cant or wont communicate with others, and will lash out in the blink of an eye, and seem to thrive on confrontation. Some might say that we should fight back, but me I think we are better than that. Its confirmed it for us now, come on D.I.M.I.A Get us out of here!!!!!!!!
Does anybody else feel the same or had a similar eye opener lately? Sorry to ramble but had to share my feelings with you all.
Gary.
Feb 5th 2006, 6:03 pm
#126
one day rodders !!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Helensvale where else!
Posts: 2,216
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by The_Stockwells
I agree with you all! This country just isn't what it used to be. I'm 32 and cam remember street parties and knowing every neighbours name and if an old lady told you off, it made you cry and run home. Not anymore though. I can't say that Oz is completely the opposite of here, but from my experience, it's a whole lot better. It's all about having respect for your country and your home and being proud of who you are and where you come from. It'll be a long hard fight to bring the UK round again.
Sorry - had a glass of red and it's made me ramble!!!
Sorry - had a glass of red and it's made me ramble!!!
i really cant see the uk being turned around
people are too eager to sue and hit out at others for the slightest thing
what ever happened to the street parties and knowing your neighbour by name
i am just as bad i could only honestly say were we live there would be one person who i could go to and have a coffee and a chat
to be honest i couldnt trust anyone else
how sad is that
jan xx
Feb 5th 2006, 6:33 pm
#127
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Neither here nor there.
Posts: 278
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Theres some very good comments on this post.
To add my bit I dont think people are just fed up with the crime rate and lack of respect issue, its also cultural identity issue.
As with anything in life you can strongly oppose change or accept it.
The U.K is a multi-cultural society as are many other countries including Australia. What hacks people off is when their own idendity is challenged. Take the U.K with the banning of the nativity in town centres at christmas because it might offend , the case of the muslim girl who won her case and was allowed to wear her headscarf when it was supposedly banned (even her muslim headteacher thought this overturn was wrong). I could go on and on.
What happened in Denmark was wrong and disrespectful and I would be offended if it was Christ but what an outrage on Saturday with the muslim marches.
Its not anti muslim at all as there are hoards of Europeans and Somalians in the town I live and it P"""""" people off. English born people (white and black) are struggling to get on and all the resources are available to the minorities. I waited 8 WEEKS for income support when I fell seriously ill and they made it very hard for me and my wife when we needed help the most.
I love England but I definitely no longer like it - its a disgrace. What are the politicians scared of?
To add my bit I dont think people are just fed up with the crime rate and lack of respect issue, its also cultural identity issue.
As with anything in life you can strongly oppose change or accept it.
The U.K is a multi-cultural society as are many other countries including Australia. What hacks people off is when their own idendity is challenged. Take the U.K with the banning of the nativity in town centres at christmas because it might offend , the case of the muslim girl who won her case and was allowed to wear her headscarf when it was supposedly banned (even her muslim headteacher thought this overturn was wrong). I could go on and on.
What happened in Denmark was wrong and disrespectful and I would be offended if it was Christ but what an outrage on Saturday with the muslim marches.
Its not anti muslim at all as there are hoards of Europeans and Somalians in the town I live and it P"""""" people off. English born people (white and black) are struggling to get on and all the resources are available to the minorities. I waited 8 WEEKS for income support when I fell seriously ill and they made it very hard for me and my wife when we needed help the most.
I love England but I definitely no longer like it - its a disgrace. What are the politicians scared of?
Feb 5th 2006, 6:39 pm
#128
Australia's Doorman
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: The Shoalhaven, New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 11,056
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
I'm no fan of statistics but if you are going to quote them I think they're totally meaningless bollocks unless you compare the area you're moving from, to the area you're moving to.
So I have.
Quite an interesting process actually, considering I live in a staunchly middle class enclave of 'nice' middle class Discovery driving folks sending their 'nice' kids to 'nice' schools. UK statistics taken from the Home Office Research Development Statistics, Oz statistics taken from the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research - both dated year 2000. All figures offence per 1000 head of population.
Assault:
Stroud: 6.2 - Kiama 3.9
Robbery:
Stroud: 0.3 - Kiama 0.05
Theft of Motor Vehicle:
Stroud: 2.7 - Kiama 0.4
Theft from a Motor Vehicle:
Stroud: 7.8 - Kiama 13.6
So - my conclusion - I'm more likely to lose my groceries from the car boot, but I'm half as likely to be assaulted, six times less likely to be robbed and six times less likely to have my car stolen. I also noted with great interest that during the period in question, there were zero posession/use of naroctics offences in the Kiama region (bit of canabis use, but let's not get judgemental about that one
). So ... despite the fact that I currently live in an area of low crime, to which people are flocking from the larger cities, the area I'm moving *to* in the Shoalhaven area of South Coast NSW is considerably safer still. That - is all - that matters.
So I have.
Quite an interesting process actually, considering I live in a staunchly middle class enclave of 'nice' middle class Discovery driving folks sending their 'nice' kids to 'nice' schools. UK statistics taken from the Home Office Research Development Statistics, Oz statistics taken from the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research - both dated year 2000. All figures offence per 1000 head of population.
Assault:
Stroud: 6.2 - Kiama 3.9
Robbery:
Stroud: 0.3 - Kiama 0.05
Theft of Motor Vehicle:
Stroud: 2.7 - Kiama 0.4
Theft from a Motor Vehicle:
Stroud: 7.8 - Kiama 13.6
So - my conclusion - I'm more likely to lose my groceries from the car boot, but I'm half as likely to be assaulted, six times less likely to be robbed and six times less likely to have my car stolen. I also noted with great interest that during the period in question, there were zero posession/use of naroctics offences in the Kiama region (bit of canabis use, but let's not get judgemental about that one
). So ... despite the fact that I currently live in an area of low crime, to which people are flocking from the larger cities, the area I'm moving *to* in the Shoalhaven area of South Coast NSW is considerably safer still. That - is all - that matters.
Feb 5th 2006, 7:15 pm
#129
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by Bella Donna
So how does this compare? http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/m...ixnewstop.html
and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
The latter is rather sensationalised, but then it's the Mail.
and http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
The latter is rather sensationalised, but then it's the Mail.
I guess it compares to stories like 6 year old children here sniffing petrol, pictures of them were provided, not in a senational way more a distressing heartbreaking way. Or the 6 year old that died when junkie parents overdosed her. Heroin is freely available here, thats why we have so many aussies like the Bali 9 in asias jails for smuggling. Its not uncommon to go to a barbie here and see people smoking pot etc in full view of kids, lesser drug, but acceptable none the less. Many major hospitals have methodone programmes, free needle exchanges and even toilets in shops and parks have needle disposal units.
I vary rarely post stats, because as someone has kindly just demonstrated its very easy to pick out the lines/stats people want and post 'rubbery conclusions' to what they mean. It happens on here all the time and it getting very predictable.
Feb 5th 2006, 7:17 pm
#130
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by andicee
Jad/Rich
I would love some links or whatever info you can provide re ANY of the above issues. I am not one to bury my head in the sand and have been actively researchiing everything I can for the last 3 years.
I for one will not shoot you down in flames cos you've posted something I otherwise thought was the opposite. Any info greatly appreciated
Andy
I would love some links or whatever info you can provide re ANY of the above issues. I am not one to bury my head in the sand and have been actively researchiing everything I can for the last 3 years.
I for one will not shoot you down in flames cos you've posted something I otherwise thought was the opposite. Any info greatly appreciated
Andy
Edit heres a couple that came up in a flick as I checked todays papers,
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...590593530.html
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/com...5E1702,00.html
Last edited by jad n rich; Feb 5th 2006 at 7:35 pm.
Feb 5th 2006, 7:21 pm
#131
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by elfman
Righty-ho:
This is from your own government (2003 figures):
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/f...gures_2004.pdf
Homicide 341
Assault 158,629
Sexual assault 18,237
Robbery 19,719
Burglary 353,419
Car theft 98,813
other theft 638,968
fraud & deception 103,199
drugs 82,000*
Total 1,473,335 (and remember this is still not an exhaustive list of all crimes)
Actual population of Australia: 20,400,000
Which gives 72.2 crimes per 1,000 people and takes you up to 13th in the league table.
My point here is not to try to demonstrate that Australia is some kind of crime-ridden hellhole (it clearly isn't), but that it's nowhere near as far from Britain as you'd like to think.
You also seem to have something of a short memory when it comes to the early successes of the One Nation party.
*came from different Source
This is from your own government (2003 figures):
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/f...gures_2004.pdf
Homicide 341
Assault 158,629
Sexual assault 18,237
Robbery 19,719
Burglary 353,419
Car theft 98,813
other theft 638,968
fraud & deception 103,199
drugs 82,000*
Total 1,473,335 (and remember this is still not an exhaustive list of all crimes)
Actual population of Australia: 20,400,000
Which gives 72.2 crimes per 1,000 people and takes you up to 13th in the league table.
My point here is not to try to demonstrate that Australia is some kind of crime-ridden hellhole (it clearly isn't), but that it's nowhere near as far from Britain as you'd like to think.
You also seem to have something of a short memory when it comes to the early successes of the One Nation party.
*came from different Source
Its nice to see some input from a totally unbaised source, thanks for doing that.
Feb 5th 2006, 9:34 pm
#132
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Godzone, utopia, Paradise Island under the sun.
Posts: 1,177
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Lets hear from people who have moved to OZ. Do you find theres less crime Downunder?
Feb 5th 2006, 10:02 pm
#133
one day rodders !!!
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Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Helensvale where else!
Posts: 2,216
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
With all due respect, my original post was not about the crime rate in the UK v Oz. What i was stating was the rapid deterioration of moral and social values in the rural areas of the UK which not so long ago were considered preferred areas in which to live.I was pointing out that the kids of today have no fear of anybody in authority and that must surely stem from the home enviroment. In Oz with the emphasis put more on the family setup and socialising i presume that this sort of behaviour would not be tollerated as readilly as it appears it is here.It saddens me to think that my kids cant just get on with their lives without constant confrontational situations, because of some simple minded little sod who was bred to fight because it was what his dad (or mum) was brought up to do.I know nowhere is perfect but come on does it need to be so in your face.
My original point was not about crime figures but about people, and the lack of respect they hold for each other. Young and old alike!
Gary.
My original point was not about crime figures but about people, and the lack of respect they hold for each other. Young and old alike!
Gary.
Feb 5th 2006, 10:12 pm
#134
one day rodders !!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Helensvale where else!
Posts: 2,216
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
please read this !!!!!!
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353134
its exactly what i remember about growing up and its a million miles away from the way things are today !!!!!
thanks to sj jackson
gary
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353134
its exactly what i remember about growing up and its a million miles away from the way things are today !!!!!
thanks to sj jackson
gary
Last edited by robos; Feb 5th 2006 at 10:29 pm.
Feb 5th 2006, 10:19 pm
#135
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Feel Shocked & Justified!!!
Originally Posted by Lord Pom Percy
Lets hear from people who have moved to OZ. Do you find theres less crime Downunder?
As most British migrants can afford to move to elite low crime areas then yes, there is less crime for most of you. People moving to the perma-holiday resort areas of the Gold coast and Sunshine coasts will see drug and alcohol inspired 'high spirits' but you'd expect that. I live in a village akin - probably the Aussie equivalent to Hutch's Cotswold location - no crime at all apart from the occasional breakin on the main road and a murder 20 years ago.
I would say that the family and outdoor lifestyle of Australia does *GENERALLY* GENERALLY (WARNING WARNING EXCEPTIONS APPLY) create a 'different' kid. There is less of a 'wanker' - SE/ London - geezer - culture here and kids are quite personable. I'm not talking about crime now. I know I've lived in both London and the SE and many parts of Australia. The only time I was irritated by particular London attitudes that frankly bore me was when I was living with 6 London blokes in Bondi 4 years ago. I don't miss it one bit.
British migrants unhappy with your situation - you do have a genuine chance to move to a better place, but choose your location wisely.
Don't just move to a beach because it's a beach. There may be loads of Poms on it getting pissed.