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Wol Sep 25th 2017 6:44 am

Driving and phone use
 
Just watched


What is even more horrifying (almost) than the videos is the infantile comments, giggling and total disconnect from reality of the subject snowflakes in them.

How anyone with a mental age above five could behave like this behind the wheel of a projectile is beyond me.

GarryP Sep 25th 2017 7:22 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wol (Post 12345652)
What is even more horrifying (almost) than the videos is the infantile comments, giggling and total disconnect from reality of the subject snowflakes in them.

How anyone with a mental age above five could behave like this behind the wheel of a projectile is beyond me.

Hence why autonomous vehicles will reduce accident rates ....

Mind, the reaction of the police and government is as bad. They think that writing a law to ban things will improve matters - whereas they should realise that people will ignore them and it doesn't actually have the desired effect, just ironically distracts attention.

Wol Sep 25th 2017 9:24 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryP (Post 12345676)
Hence why autonomous vehicles will reduce accident rates ....

Mind, the reaction of the police and government is as bad. They think that writing a law to ban things will improve matters - whereas they should realise that people will ignore them and it doesn't actually have the desired effect, just ironically distracts attention.

Two things here!

You compare the known accident rate at present with a completely hypothetical accident rate for future autonomous cars. Yes, I have seen many videos showing the incredible ability of self driving cars - but have a look at the owners' forums and see how they behave on a daily basis in real conditions! (And I believe that Catalyst tomorrow on ABC is covering the issue.)

Your second point I find strange: mobile use while driving is a very very dangerous activity - and the texting shown by the infants in that video beggars description. It appears there are at least two generations who have absolutely no concept of personal responsibility based on the film and to argue that "people will do it anyway" doesn't help that impression.

Just remembered that last year I was narrowly missed while standing on the pavement in Sydney waiting for the crossing light when a car clipped the corner by two feet - girl with one hand on the wheel (one more than several in the video) and the other pecking away on a mobile.....

GarryP Sep 25th 2017 9:42 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wol (Post 12345746)
Two things here!

You compare the known accident rate at present with a completely hypothetical accident rate for future autonomous cars. Yes, I have seen many videos showing the incredible ability of self driving cars - but have a look at the owners' forums and see how they behave on a daily basis in real conditions! (And I believe that Catalyst tomorrow on ABC is covering the issue.)

Your second point I find strange: mobile use while driving is a very very dangerous activity - and the texting shown by the infants in that video beggars description. It appears there are at least two generations who have absolutely no concept of personal responsibility based on the film and to argue that "people will do it anyway" doesn't help that impression.

Just remembered that last year I was narrowly missed while standing on the pavement in Sydney waiting for the crossing light when a car clipped the corner by two feet - girl with one hand on the wheel (one more than several in the video) and the other pecking away on a mobile.....

1) They are aiming at a point where autonomous vehicles are an order of magnitude safer than human drives - in the understanding that that will be needed to get the lawyers off their back. They already have less accidents per mile according to the data...

2) You don't fix the situation by laws, since you know they will not have the desired effect. Instead you deal with root causes and the drivers of behaviour. For instance, you get voice control sorted (its a mess at the moment) and push car manufacturers to make such systems base level items, not optional extras.

Wol Sep 25th 2017 11:06 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Garry:

>>1) They are aiming at a point where autonomous vehicles are an order of magnitude safer than human drives - in the understanding that that will be needed to get the lawyers off their back. They already have less accidents per mile according to the data... <<

"Aiming" is the operative word. And "already have fewer accidents" rather begs the real question - how often did the driver override the automatics? Certainly Tesla has had many occasions (according to their drivers in the Tesla forums) where quick reactions prevented the car from going feral.

Aircraft have had automatic landing for years - but only after decades of testing that is orders of magnitude more severe than cars, triplex voting automatics, millions spent on maintenance, engineering, training, regulations and so on - yet landing on a runway is far less demanding technically than negotiating packed roads with untrained and lax "drivers" notionally in charge.

>>2) You don't fix the situation by laws, since you know they will not have the desired effect. Instead you deal with root causes and the drivers of behaviour. For instance, you get voice control sorted (its a mess at the moment) and push car manufacturers to make such systems base level items, not optional extras. <<

You seem to be of the opinion that texting while driving isn't a problem: that's the only way I can read your comment. There are many antisocial or dangerous activities that laws can't eliminate but saying that therefore it's pointless making them illegal is perverse. Burglary? Murder? Laws against them don't stop them but it's a brave (stupid) anarchist who thinks they should be abolished.

And voice control only addresses one part of the danger of using mobiles in the car (the act of dialing and disconnecting.) The main danger is the mental distraction of conversing with someone who has no idea what's going on whether you are pulling across a busy dual carriageway or negotiating a multiple roundabout for example. Most passengers are aware of the hazards and stop talking when they see potentially hazardous situations - your phone correspondent isn't.

GarryP Sep 25th 2017 12:15 pm

Re: Driving and phone use
 
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...17-1?r=US&IR=T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wol (Post 12345801)
You seem to be of the opinion that texting while driving isn't a problem: that's the only way I can read your comment.

Which is exactly what I DIDN'T say.

Wol Sep 25th 2017 10:42 pm

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryP (Post 12345843)
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...17-1?r=US&IR=T


Which is exactly what I DIDN'T say.

Fair enough.

I read your link to business insider, and it make the same error as the other reports I've looked at. It seems to have no concern about the number of times that "drivers" have taken over to avoid the AP taking them on paths they would not like - and surely that is actually more important than the number of actual crashes? It is a more accurate figure of the reliability of the AP (bearing in mind that all present APs are nowhere near phase 5, nor are they represented as such.)

Make no mistake: I am very interested in the advance of technology - I have been working on Mrs Wol for ten years to allow me to get a roadster and lately a model S) but I can see huge problems if politicians allow themselves to be conned by the industry into allowing self drive cars to be marketed to the masses any time in the foreseeable future.

I will watch tonight's Catalyst with interest!

GarryP Sep 26th 2017 12:23 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wol (Post 12346443)
I read your link to business insider, and it make the same error as the other reports I've looked at. It seems to have no concern about the number of times that "drivers" have taken over to avoid the AP taking them on paths they would not like - and surely that is actually more important than the number of actual crashes?

Not really.

It's operating as driver assist, not full autonomy. Therefore there are going to be instances where it doesn't work perfectly. The reason you can't take the number of times the driver has taken over is for the same reason teaching someone to drive is so nerve wracking - driving styles vary and people watching others drive (over)react differently to if they were driving.

Fact remains, driver assist+driver = less accidents, particularly in those instances where the driver is distracted and missed what is going on in front of them.

old.sparkles Sep 26th 2017 1:14 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Well until autonomous cars are the norm, I think we should all agree that mobile phones are a major distraction and people need to learn to turn them off when driving, or on silent or something.

I haven't watched the video but saw a clip on the TV of some drivers who agreed to have video cameras placed in the car to monitor them. All of them were using mobiles far too often, taking selfies, texting, etc. Hopefully it will shock some into not doing it. Or maybe this will :


verystormy Sep 26th 2017 4:58 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
There is a very simple way to cure it in the longer term. Legislate that all cars have a faraday cage built into them.

Beoz Sep 26th 2017 4:59 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
I was in the back seat of a helicopter in Manila once where the pilot thought it was OK to text and fly through the towers. It was just back and forth text conversation with one hand on the joy stick. The other locals in the chopper didn't bat and eye lid.

Wol Sep 26th 2017 9:48 am

Re: Driving and phone use
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by verystormy (Post 12346607)
There is a very simple way to cure it in the longer term. Legislate that all cars have a faraday cage built into them.

Most cars are already Faraday cages - but it doesn't seem to have much effect on phone signals!


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