JAJ

Only if they refuse to take Australian citizenship.

What's the problem with doing that?




Ireland is not a Commonwealth country. For some purposes Irish citizens were treated as 'British subjects', but not for others. I don't know about voting.

The point about taking Australian citizenship applies equally to the Irish (and New Zealanders etc).


Well it is the *Australian* government.
It's not unreasonable to expect people who want to work for Australia to also want to be Australian.


Impossible to say.

During WW1 and WW2 a separate Australian citizenship did not exist, so the question didn't arise.

During Korea and Vietnam, British subjects did have more or less the same rights as Australian citizens.

If it happened today? One the things you need to learn as part of the citizenship application process is what duties a citizen has (over and above obeying the law ... ). The list is not long:

- vote
- serve on a jury if called upon
- defend Australia, should the need arise

This suggests that conscription would *not* be applied to PRs if it were re-introduced. Even if it was, a PR could probably leave the country legally when a citizen might not have that option.

The US expects permanent residents as well as citizens to register for Selective Service.

Melodramatic comment of the month, I think.

PRs have *most* of the privileges of Australian citizens, and *most* of the duties.

For those who don't think being a PR is a good deal - the door to Australian citizenship is wide open for most.

Jeremy

bob and ginnie

In reply to JAJ's comments:
Ireland is not a British Commonwealth country.
It used to be called the "Irish Free State" up until April 1949, when it became a republic outside the Commonwealth. However the new Irish gov't asked the members of the Commonwealth (in this case, this includes Australia) not to treat its citizens as "aliens". That prevailed until recently, as they had always been enfranchised (able to vote and work for the Australian gov't, etc)
In reponse to your remark of my making "melodramatic" statements, I know that British citizens are no longer allowed to vote in Australian elections. Australians still have the right to vote and stand for office in the UK however, as Commonwealth citizens.
Until I hear of a law repealing the obligations of British and New Zealand Citizens to serve in Australian Armed Forces under conscription, then I will keep saying that British citizens have all the responsibilities (i.e. liable for "call up"), yet none of the privileges of citizenship (i.e. able to vote and stand for parliament, as before!)

Don

Karma time!

bob and ginnie

Pete!
I happen to disagree that Australia owes nothing to Britain.
Australia is one of the most tolerant nations on Earth, giving others a "fair go" . . . British legal system and Westminster system of government has something to do with all this. I don't know if we'd all get as fair a go in some other countries???
We don't speak English by accident.
We have the right to vote for whoever we like.
We have the right to stand for parliament and make ourselves felt
We have the right to peaceful protest
we have the right to join a trade union
etc., etc.
. . . . Inherited from British settlers. We take so much for granted now, that is the envy of the world, but they had to be fought for and won back in history by British people!

When you boil it all down, we owe a damn lot to our British heritage for our easy going way of life. . . . same in New Zealand . . . .same in Canada.

Don

Are we just talking semantics here? Ulujain talked about not 'owing' something to the UK and in that sense he is right. Aus is an independent nation with no past debts still to be paid off to the past colonial masters (and just the minor matter of dumping the Head of State at the right moment).

Take Germany - nobody rational would argue that the current population owes much of a debt to Europe for waging the Second World War - 90% of the population wasn't even born in 1939 or were just toddlers!

You (bob and ginnie) are also right because you are acknowledging the history of the place and the origin of Aus's political, legal, social & cultural institutions and common language.

Peter

@JAJ re: selective service in the US. Believe it or not, selective service applies to any male inhabitant in the US, including illegal immigrants. If you're considered resident and are 18-27, you must register, whether you're in the US lawfully or not.

bob and ginnie

That seems to be a uniquely American thing, Pete. It doesn't work that way in Australia, or Britain, or New Zealand. Only "British subjects" were liable for service during the Wars. Aliens got out of it.
However, while on holidays in Darwin 4 years ago, my wife's cousin's hubby had a father that came from England before WW2. He had already done a few years in the Royal Navy, yet travelled to Brisbane to "sign on" as a serviceman at the U.S. consulate there and got into the U.S. Navy ! ! . . . . as a British subject! ! His dad was actually serving on an American warship that was in Darwin Harbour when it copped a bombing by the Japs. That's how the whole saga unfolded.
That wouldn't have happened in the Royal Navy or R.A.N.

JAJ

Selective service does not apply to legal *nonimmigrants* in the US.
The age limit is one's 26th birthday, for those that are eligible.

http://www.sss.gov

Jeremy

JAJ

In other words, the Irish wanted to have their cake and eat it.


Which should be changed. Only British citizens should have the right to vote in British elections, subject to any *reciprocal* arrangements that might exist from time to time.


Such a law may well have been passed by the Whitlam government. Why don't you do some research at http://scaleplus.law.gov.au if this is so important.

Or at least conscription itself may well have been repealed. No government is going to pass a law exempting foreigners from a *non-existent* obligation!

In any case - nobody is forced to be a PR for more then two years - so your question's irrelevant. The options to take Australian citizenship or go home are available for those who think that PRs get a poor deal. Australians are not generally impressed by moaning which is not accompanied by positive action.

Jeremy

JAJ

[QUOTE=The Don]Are we just talking semantics here? Ulujain talked about not 'owing' something to the UK and in that sense he is right. Aus is an independent nation with no past debts still to be paid off to the past colonial masters (and just the minor matter of dumping the Head of State at the right moment).

Britain was never a 'colonial master' of Australia. Prior to 1901 the Australian jurisdictions (plural - there was more than one, with substantial independent from each other) were colonies, but had acquired more autonomy during the 19th century. From Federation, Australia was a Dominion and not a colony.

And as for the 'Head of State' the office of Queen of Australia is different to that of Queen of the United Kingdom.

The reality today is that Australia is an independent nation that has evolved out of a number of United Kingdom colonies. As Australia is now independent, British people should not expect to be treated as citizens in Australia unless they make the effort to take out Australian citizenship.

But at the same time, there is no need for Australians to cringe about their background as a nation (less common now than 10-15 years ago). No Australian should be ashamed of Australia's British heritage.

Jeremy

Peter

I've never cringed about Australia's background as a nation. I've cringed more at the sad, sad way in which the tourism folks portray us abroad. All shrimps, barbies and Fosters, mate. Dunno how they advertise us on UK TV, but here in the US, that's how it's done.

bondipom

Yeh in QLD its xxxx not fosters and in NSW its Tooheys.

Australia owes Britain nothing and vice versa. I just wish sensible alternative to the monarchy can be thought of to break the final ties. Australia may well have inherited many systems from the UK and developed them as did the UK from other nations. The UK owes nothing to anyone else for that so why should Australia owe Britain anything.

There is a strong shared history and culture between the 2 countries but that has been diluted and enriched by new migrants and Australia developing its own identity. It was interesting seeing the cringing at the hideous outfits the Olympics team had to wear in the opening ceremony. The smart casual retired look is no longer the image wanted by younger Aussies.