WillBlack

Jolly good. Now Britons can add "sexist", "disabilitist" and "agist" to their vocubulary where once their linguistic expression of righteous outrage was stifflingly and inadequately limited to chants of "racist".

the troubadour

[QUOTE=viviennef;8174363] He may well feel better to learn that it is no longer illegal to be gay in India, a recent development..so on return can go about his business with a sense of pride.
Of course it is the difference in the human make up that makes it all worth while.

RenShen

Where I worked, we needed to recruit somebody for a mainly phone based job in marketing (not telesales though). I had the job of doing an initial phone "chat" to check if they were indian or not as the management felt that the accent would make people on the other end of the phone switch off straight away because of the connection with indian call centres. I have to say that I agree with them, but is that racist?

Surely its just getting the right sounding voice for the job, a voice that generates a positive image in the minds of the person receiving the call?

I would be interested in your replies to this one as its something I have questioned myself over a few times.

Barbitana

Hi Ren,

Thanks for participation.
I am not Indian and what I am saying is not based on personal bias but as a green peace advocate and a former victim of racism, I can say it in fact IS racism why?

First off, usually we tend to interpret things happening to us in a different way, that's why I'm gonna give you some other examples (like the one you just mentioned) to demonstrate why it's racism and why you should have said "No".

1- You spend years and years of your life on studying Spanish and get your PhD. You apply for a job as a Spanish teacher at a good University in UK; they reject your application because you might have a "funny" accent, they ignore your professional background, they do not care how well you know Spanish and hire a native Spanish speaker with MUCH less knowledge than you. How does it feel?

2- You're travelling across SA; you're running out of money and apply for a job with Macdonald's - You're very well qualified to get it. They reject your application the reason is that "since you're white this may remind people the unpleasant memories of the apartheid era back in the 70s and 80s". How does it feel?

3- Your name just sounds like middle eastern names and you do have a middle eastern accent; although your English is perfect. You get your master of education degree from the best school in the US and apply to be a teacher in NYC. They reject your application saying "you voice reminds people Al-Qaeda" messages and their connections!". How does it feel?

4- You've got a pre-sales role with lots of customer presentation sessions, heaven forbid in a gas explosion you lose most of your attractive face. When after 5 horrible operations you return to work, you find you're fired or offered a job with 1/2 of your salary and actually "behind the scene". The reason is that "your face grosses our customers out!". How does it feel?

You may say the last instance has nothing to do with so-called "race", I agree but it's a perfect example of when something beyond your control affects your potential (and in many cases "proven") abilities. Just imagine what would have happened if people said "Hey Beethoven! you're better off doing something more appropriate when you're deaf!"

I am not going to say if you're just 150cm apply for a job at NBA and you must be admitted but if you're a perfect basketball player you must be given enough chance to get into NBA as anyone else with your qualifications, regardless of your accent, color, religion etc.

Accent, color of hair, color of skin, country of birth, disability and many other things are well beyond our control. Sometimes what's happened is discrimination and sometimes it's racism but I am asking you; does it make any difference for your son waiting for his dad to get his salary to buy him a bike but they reject your application based on your accent while you're 100% qualified and capable of doing the job?

You may wish to see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_racism

"Covert racism is a much less public and obvious form of racism or overt racism. It is hidden in the fabric of society, covertly suppressing the individuals being discriminated against."

That's what exactly your boss says! he's very well afraid of the "fabric of society" - this has to be changed.

RenShen

Thanks for your reply. Its very interesting, although the examples you have given are a bit more tenuous than in my example. The thing is, I can see that our customers WOULD have been turned off by the accent and this would have badly affected the business. Are you suggesting that the boss should have employed that person regardless of this?

ABCDiamond

It is a very interesting and thought provoking point.

Technically it isn't racist if the object is to employ a person that can communicate well with the customers, without upsetting the customer.

I assume that if the person being interviewed, just spoke with an Indian sounding accent, but without being Indian, they would also be rejected due to not being able to "communicate well with the customer".

I assume the interviewer would also reject anyone else who didn't fit the bill from a speech point of view, whether Indian or even British or Australian.

Barbitana

Ren,
He is limited by all the constraints imposed by the society; again that "fabric thing" has to be changed. Yet it won't never change if anyone waits for someone else. It's like all of know very well not all black american ppl. are gangsters but still when we see discrimination we turn our faces around.

We actually did a tiny research - you may find these videos very interesting (my favorite ones).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yI2Z...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trih27_Ft0Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFO1b9I-u5Q

Cheers,

WillBlack

You might be more keen of insight than I into matters racial but I say your examples are poor / weak with respect to racism, even when qualified by the word "covert".

Your examples are not very strong examples of anti-employment discrimination. Whether there is anything racial behind them is quite unclear.

British Law, it seems, lumped many forms of inequitable discrimination together and labeled them "racial". It seems you do the same. Unneccessarily since Australian Law does not so lump.

Barbitana

Blacky,
There are not actually pure examples...they're real stroeis of people like me and you participated in an academic research because they believed they had been subject to discrimination/racism. Almost in all examples they could sue the employer.

Cheers,

The Woodcutter

Not true. Anti-discrimination Act 1991 does so lump the following:

(a) sex;
(b) marital status;
(c) pregnancy;
(d) parental status;
(e) breastfeeding;
(f) age;
(g) race;
(h) impairment;
(i) religion;
(j) political belief or activity;
(k) trade union activity;
(l) lawful sexual activity;
(m) association with, or relation to, a person identified on the basis of any of the above attributes.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE...91/91AC085.pdf

WillBlack

Note the name of the legislation: "ANTI-DISCRIMINATION ACT 1991"
Then see (g) above.

ABCDiamond

Since when is breastfeeding racial discrimination ?

Barbitana

That's what exactly I mean; discrimination is an umbrella...thanks Woody.

Cheers,

WillBlack

Do you shelter under it?

Barbitana

I and many others posting here were beaten with it