fnord

I lived in Spain for almost 3 years. I think that, yes, the Spanish are pretty racist. A friend of mine was spat on in the Metro, more than once. She ended up packing up and going back to the US. It was too much for her and she was a pretty tough cookie. I saw plenty of other examples, including by the police. Funny thing is though, most of the Spanish I knew thought they weren't racist at all. I grew up in NZ and although not as PC as the UK, certainly better than Spain. Oz I can't be sure from my short visits but I suspect worse than NZ mostly because ignored the issue for so long (White Australia policy etc). How bad? I guess my Peruvian wife will find out soon enough...

michellemac

Just to tackle a few of your points.....

:- People very friendly, - so are lots of Brits!

hardly any immegrants in rural areas - erm - aren't you an Immigrant? Why is it OK for you but not anyone else to be an 'immigrant'?

Food is not bad but not up to european standards -a matter of taste but I'd say the average restaurant in Australia would be better quality and cheaper than the 'average' restaurant in the UK - especially for Seafood.

good looking woman (in cities only)- it's what you're used to, my Aussie brother thinks the British woman are better looking, maybe familiarity breeds contempt?

Teenagers pay a pittance in car insurance so all drive V8 6Liter super cars - and this is a plus point because..... ????


Heres a short list of whats bad just so all you 'grass is greener' brigade know exactly what your in for....

* Poor educatoinal standard in state schools - You can find good and bad state schools in both the UK and in Australia although to be fair it I'm not so sure your own school did too well on the grammar and spelling front

* jobs worths - there are PLENTY of these in the UK too, but yes, they are bloody annoying the world over - at least they (usually) do it with a smile in Oz!

* road works don't use trafic lights, 6 people with lollypop sticks will do - I prefer Lollipops to traffic lights in roadworks having been stuck in numoerous hour-long traffic jams acuased by stupid traffic lights on roadworks (This is a personal frustration of mine though)

* inconsistant fee structure in medical stuff - at least you can get treated before your tumour kills you!!! (although this is getting better in the UK from what I can tell)

* imported goods have high import dutys so are very expensive -Fair cop. -especially cars and electronic stuff

* impossible to get a price on goods in most industrial estate shops (???? do industrial estates have shops - I thought 'Industrial' meant 'not retail'!?)

* don't try buying over the internet from abroad - why not? it's a Genuine question as i do buy stuff from the internet.

* union mad - fair cop, but have had the minimum wage for years and years which is a plus point!

* can't have a meal here unless your a member - ?????I think this has already been disputed - you're only talking about specific clubs in specific places. Try a restaurant - lots of other people do

* can't join this club if you belong to another within 5 km - Only in some states - If you're talking about RSL, they don't have them in the same format in WA for example.

* I only want a pint, not a half!! - buy a jug!! Or keep ordering middies and rejoice that your second half pint will be both a) COLD and b) Fizzy!

* Want a boat, you need to pay a fee - I think this is fair enough, why not license a boat - it is a passenger vessel after all?

* want to fish, you need a licence - to protect endangered species - I think it's a good way to keep an eye on this and it's a shame they don't do it in the UK.

* want an air rifle, sell your 1st born son - why would you want an air rifle?

* want something delivered within a week, sell your 2nd son - I think this depends on where you shop and what you want delievered!

* want to buy from ebay? pay more for postage than the winning bid! - errr -don't buy from E-Bay then. As far s I can tell this is pretty standard in the UK too?? (I've only ever bought one thing from E-Bay so couldn't rightly comment!)

* You must have more than 1 can of car spray paint in this whole town! (is this really a whinge about the colour of cars??? LOL!!)

* What!! I have to pay a fine because *YOU* stole my car!! -This is stupid but again is it a nation-wide thing?

* What!! you want how much to put this car on the road? EEEK what about UK road tax?? and separate insurance - at least third party insurance is definitely paid up if your car is taxed - which is good news if some uninsured dim-wit hits you (admittedly probably more likely in Australia as the drivers ARE on the whole worse than the UK in my experience)

* What!! you've given me DOUBLE demerit points on my licence because I commited a driving offence at xmas, easter and any other public holiday. was my crime worse because jesus was born?- err don't drink and drive or speed then! Lots of people manage to get where they want to go - fine free!! - without doing any of those things....

Michelle

DagBoy

Well, I tried to avoid it, but had to post ...

And it sounds like you are sick of Aus, so maybe you are one of those people that is never happy?

If you came here to get away from that sort of thing and spent 3 years getting a visa and never did any research into things like immigration, politics, media, health ...... well, let's just say it seems a bit of an oversight.

If fining stupid people will help reduce the number of cars stolen, thus reducing insurance premiums and reducing the number of dangerous hoons in stolen cars endangering innocent lives.... well, sit sounds OK to me.

Change banks.

Might be something to do with the fact that the roads infrastructure in the UK has been developed over a couple of thousand years .....

Never been to Cairo?

* Poor educatoinal standard in state schools
haven't spotted it up here in Brisbane

* workers have no desire to be measured on standards
Try a different job, the professionalt I deal with are much the same as anywhere

* jobs worths
You get them here but you also get them there

* 6 men to do 1 mans job
Haven't seen that anywhere

* road works don't use trafic lights, 6 people with lollypop sticks will do
And?...

* inconsistant fee structure in medical stuff
maybe - I have not noticed it

* imported goods have high import dutys so are very expensive
And imported goods in the UK are not expensive?

* internet comercial ussage at about UK 1990 level but with broadband common
When I got here I found better Internet connection fees etc than in the UK - maybe it depends where you were and where you moved to

* impossible to get a price on goods in most industrial estate shops
You tried asking?

* don't try buying over the internet from abroad
Why not?

* union mad
Not that I have noticed. No worse than Europe.

* can't have a meal here unless your a member
So join.

* can't join this club if you belong to another within 5 km
So pick one.

* I only want a pint, not a half!!
So ask for a pint

* Want a boat, you need to pay a fee
And?

* want to fish, you need a licence
Not in Qld (except for freshwater)

* want an air rifle, sell your 1st born son
based on your later comments on what you might have done in the RTA office if you had been armed, I think that is a good thing.

* want something delivered within a week, sell your 2nd son
I have had no such problems - try different shops.

* want to buy from ebay? pay more for postage than the winning bid!
Depends where you are buying from.

* Postmen wont deliver if it cant be done from a sitting position
So move your mailbox

* Postman will deliver a card to say 'cant be arsed to deliver your small parcel come and get it your self'
And they do not do that in the UK? They did where I lived.

* Pay all your income in tax unless you pay all your income in accountants fees
All your income? I would query that - the most I have ever paid here was 47%

* You must have more than 1 can of car spray paint in this whole town!
There must be something in your approach that makes people want to not help you ...

* What!! I'm not allowed to buy ring main wire unless I have a certificate?
I am pretty sure you can buy wire in Bunnings - I have not done it so I may be wrong - but then in this country you are not allowed to wire your own house so the regulation seems reasonable. Are you a sparky? If so you can get a licence, if not, you shoulkd not be wiring a ring main.

* What!! you cant do any DIY work thats worth over $5000 without going on a builders course!
OK - I agree that is a bit of a what the ...

* What!! I can't come and work for you unless *I* have liability insurance!!
I work for company and have not got liability insurance. Am I missing something?

* What!! I have to pay a fine because *YOU* stole my car!!
Not aware of this law.

* What!! you want how much to put this car on the road?
And there are no costs involved in the UK (like the yearly MoT test?)

* What!! you've given me DOUBLE demerit points on my licence because I commited a driving offence at xmas, easter and any other public holiday. was my crime worse because jesus was born?
Dangerous time - need to reduce road problems. Try not breaking the law and the double demerits will not bother you.

* 'On my oath!' means I'm lying thru my teeth
If yousay so...


Hmmm - on the whole a couple of interesting and informative posts

.....

or a heap of bollocks, one of the two.

Cheers,

DagBoy

Vegemite Kids

Hey blurred,
send me a pm with your email addy, cos am currently working as a Quality Manager & I may be able to help you. Sent you karma but think my red wine addictiobn screwed it up

M

Vegemite Kids

Try living in Germany ! taxes change from month to month. 3 times I paid 72% tax :scared: yes it hurt

Vegemite Kids

Well I did, and I'm Australian. admittedly I didnt leave OZ through choice. parents decided I needed to "finish" my education in Europe. Anyway 24 years later (with 14 countries Lived and worked and 38 countries visited) I'm back in Australia and can honestly say its a great country and beats most other countries hands down. If you've only EVER lived in UK then you have nothing to compare to and OZ might, on the surface, appear to be not so OK, but if you can make an accurate comparison, then OZ stacks up pretty good.

Juliecabs

When I first started reading this thread, I thought "S**t, are we doing the right thing?". After all, I've only been over to Oz once for a holiday last year with my family and fell in love with the place. I even thought of emailing my hubby at work, asking him to read this and asking him if we still ought to go. But the more I read, the more I realised it is what you make of it. Arkon has had his share of pitfalls, but I reckon you have to go with an open mind, not the "rose-tinted specs" mind. If you are determined to make it work, then it will, as I am sure Arkon hopefully will discover.
I'm under no illusion that Oz is going to be the answer to our prayers. I know they have their fair share of problems and bureaucracy as do we, but we've decided that we would like to find out for ourselves whether this new life that we want to embark on is going to be the right thing for us and our kids.
We have (as do many others here) a huge mortgage, which we can't seem to lower. My husband's wages just about cover our bills here leaving us with nothing left over for luxuries. I was made redundant recently and my husband's job is under the threat of redundancy, so we have decided that now is the time to try and make a more comfortable and easier life for us. Whether Australia does that for us remains to be seen, but we're willing to give it a go. We'll never know otherwise. Over there we will be mortgage free and hopefully have some left over to have a bit of quality time with the kids. Obviously the weather over there would help in that respect.
I've been really happy here as far as most (but not all) other things are concerned. I have a big, happy family who all live close by, and a lot of friends, and leaving them all is going to be heartbreaking. But I have my own family to think of and hopefully our decision (and it's a joint decision between all 5 of us) to go will be the right one for our futures. Let's hope so. But we're also not too proud to admit that if it doesn't work out, then we'll come back again. Granted, we may not be able to have this house anymore, but we'll stick together and manage.
I hope none of this sounds patronising, but I just thought I'd add my thoughts to what is a very nerve racking time for most of us on here.

Julie

andyedwards

Great reply, I just realised why I love reading these posts!! Thanks Dagboy! We haven't got the knowledge to comment on the 'downs' of living in Aus yet, (if indeed we do find any-we are more "cups always half full" people though) but Arkon sounds like he would be "down" wherever he lived. My sis-in-law's partner is Aussie and he once said to us and I quote "come to our country, enjoy it and be accepted, come to our country and try to change us and you've come to the wrong place". In other words go knowing the culture is different and adapt to it, rather than to expect the place (and people) to adapt to you. There endeth my piece.

arkon

I promised I wouldn't continue this but I will clarify with a more level head what I meant by some of these and try to put them into context, I'm not flaming honest

:- People very friendly, - so are lots of Brits!
* Well the Ausies are very friendly to us so I have no complaints there; so far the only unfriendly people have been anyone with some form of power over you, RTA, Council, Phone Company, Water Company. The RTA was over our names of all things, they couldn't cope with someone christened with 5 forenames, this combined with a Scottish accent caused what I can only describe as Racism, bordering on paranoia.

hardly any immigrants in rural areas - erm - aren't you an Immigrant? Why is it OK for you but not anyone else to be an 'immigrant'?
* I don't class myself as an immigrant, Most Australians were descended from poms, and the queen is still on the coins. As I’ve said before I have no problem with immigrants, But I have found Australia to be very immigrant intolerant, this would be a positive for someone from the UK leaving because of the immigration problem there. (The positives I stated earlier were not all my positives just what I imagined could be interpreted to some as a positive). I will be more careful in future to only give my opinions.

Food is not bad but not up to European standards -a matter of taste but I'd say the average restaurant in Australia would be better quality and cheaper than the 'average' restaurant in the UK - especially for Seafood.
* No I eat out a lot both here and in the UK, and yes it is subjective and yes the UK is more costly to eat out, But the food in good restaurants, Indian, Chinese and pizza places is defiantly better (In my opinion *subjective of course*)

Teenagers pay a pittance in car insurance so all drive V8 6Liter super cars - and this is a plus point because..... ????
* Because if you are a young person you will be able to drive a much better car than you could afford in the UK at that age and be able to insure it. This doesn’t apply to me as I’m now 40. I brought this up because Australia’s answer to the road death toll from youngsters is to keep lowering the speed limits, whereas in the UK this problem is kept under better control due to the insurance companies making it far too expensive for a youngster to have a powerful super car. It isn’t the speed that kills but the poor driving skills in under experienced young drivers driving something they shouldn’t be able to insure.

* Poor educational standard in state schools - You can find good and bad state schools in both the UK and in Australia although to be fair it I'm not so sure your own school did too well on the grammar and spelling front
* * Fair cop at my spelling and grammar, But I am diagnosed as slightly autistic and have been classified as a genius, unfortunately my skills don’t extend to written communication, (verbal not too good either), Back to the schools, in the UK love them or hate them the league tables have totally transformed most schools, I know this 1st hand being married to a teacher and having lots of teacher & headmaster friends. Here in Australia teachers do not want to be measured and if there are good schools where are they? As a parent I want to know. We have in the last 8 months here had a lot to do with many kids we have met through new friends etc. and I’m not impressed with what I’ve seen of their academic skills so far. I also have some family members who came here as kids from a UK school system to this one and all bar none think that what they got here was as though they were a couple of years younger for the same year.

* jobs worths - there are PLENTY of these in the UK too, but yes, they are bloody annoying the world over - at least they (usually) do it with a smile in Oz!
**Australia in this regard is like pre Maggie Thatcher’s Britain, like her or hate her the end result transformed the UK and its work ethic. The Australians are doing all they can to resist those kind of changes, like 6 men to do what one man could do. I don’t blame them from resisting but the laid back inefficient work attitude here is very frustrating when you’re trying to get something done. Maybe I just try to do too much and need to take some valium and chill out, but my body and mind even after 8 months is still on UK speed and efficiency.

* road works don't use traffic lights, 6 people with lollypop sticks will do - I prefer Lollipops to traffic lights in road works having been stuck in numerous hour-long traffic jams caused by stupid traffic lights on road works (This is a personal frustration of mine though)
** This is back to my previous point though, I’ve had the misfortune to live somewhere here that has had a lot of constant road works and its quite infuriating to see somewhere from 4 to 6 people behaving like just 2 traffic lights for maybe a 500 meter stretch of straight road that is currently set up as a two way contra flow. This combined with the government and opposition going on about the labor and skills shortage over here is quite for me irritating when the solution is so obvious. Retrain your unskilled traffic lights and other unskilled workers, work them more efficiently and free up a phenomenal amount of labor.

* inconsistant fee structure in medical stuff - at least you can get treated before your tumour kills you!!! (although this is getting better in the UK from what I can tell)
** We’ve had 2 big reasons to get to know the Australian medical system in the last 8 months one due to Cancer and the other a pregnancy, So I do feel very confident to comment on it, In the UK if you go to any hospital the treatment and fee or lack of will be consistent, no mater where you go. Ok the quality of the treatment might differ but the way it works country wide is consistent. Here by contrast you can get charged from zero (if you know all the secrets) to exorbitant fees just because you didn’t know what question to ask. There private medical scheme which we are very familiar with both here and in the UK, is a joke out here. What’s the point of having private medical insurance which only ends up paying a small percentage of the medical bill? When if you didn’t have private, you would still get treated, most likely by the same surgeon or doctor but get it free with Medicare or at a small nominal cost. All this I could cope with fine if someone was to actually tell you what you should do to get the treatment free or cheaper.
Instead what we have found is that you automatically get asked to pay the huge fee, then when you turn green at the cost, and query the cost, it suddenly gets much cheaper or your then told you should have gone to the doctor next door because he bulk bills.
* impossible to get a price on goods in most industrial estate shops (???? do industrial estates have shops - I thought 'Industrial' meant 'not retail'!?)
** We have created a business since we got here and so have also been exposed to a few extra hurdles and differences. So yes I do have occasion to buy from places on industrial estates, Out here the industrial estates seem mixed retail like Bunnings and Harvey Normans, with other light industrial units. What I meant by not getting a price is that goods on display almost never have prices on them so it’s very hard to shop around. Yes you could ask but then you enter into a conversation where I seldom end up getting what I came in for. And so far I seem to get conned into buying something that the expert in the shop says will do the job, only to get home and find its made in china and unfit for purpose. I have now learnt that if a shop doesn’t have what you want the sales staff will lie and sell you anything just to get the sale. Only yesterday I wanted some ready mixed grout only to be told there was no such thing, so reluctantly bought the powdered stuff and left the shop. I went back later because I’d forgotten to buy something else. I walked passed a huge rack with 3 different types of ready mixed grout! Now the UK level of expertise in this kind of specialist shop is usually second to none, but out here what I described above happens to me on a weekly basis.

* don't try buying over the internet from abroad - why not? it's a Genuine question as i do buy stuff from the internet.
** You can buy from abroad but so far 3 out of 4 packages I have bought from abroard has been stopped by customs and cost me from $160 to $180+ to get my goods cleared.
I’ve mentioned this before but 1 package had no real value, just excess baggage stuff cost $160, One roll of fabric worth $250 cost $187 to clear, and some baby presents from home cost another $160 to clear. It’s supposed to be if the goods are worth more than $150 then you will get stung, but so far we have found it to be a bit of a lottery.

* union mad - fair cop, but have had the minimum wage for years and years which is a plus point!
** Well this is subjective too, but as an employer in the UK then the more sensible less militant unions in the UK has defiantly improved the countries prosperity which leads to better services etc. If you search this forum for people who have returned to the UK after being here for 10 years or more they will all testify I hope that the UK is much better for its new trade union laws. I welcome the same happening here.

* can't have a meal here unless your a member - ?????I think this has already been disputed - you're only talking about specific clubs in specific places. Try a restaurant - lots of other people do
** Sorry I was being glib, this did happen to us and we couldn’t believe the pettiness of it. Almost as funny as when we went to a show, bought a ticket from the kiosk, turned around to walk towards the entry gate and before we could move a foot, A woman took our ticket off us and tore it in half. (this was another example of a pointless jobs worth)

* I only want a pint, not a half!! - buy a jug!! Or keep ordering middies and rejoice that your second half pint will be both a) COLD and b) Fizzy!
** I wrote this because either its my accent or something but every time I ask for a pint, no mater where I go, I always get a schooner! This seems to be much smaller than a pint.

* Want a boat, you need to pay a fee - I think this is fair enough, why not license a boat - it is a passenger vessel after all?
** Didn’t make myself clear here sorry, it’s not so much the boat I object to licensing but the boat trailer! You license the Boat then you also have to license the trailer. Why both?


* want to fish, you need a licence - to protect endangered species - I think it's a good way to keep an eye on this and it's a shame they don't do it in the UK.
** Maybe, but we live on a river and still have to have a license to fish from the garden.

* want an air rifle, sell your 1st born son - why would you want an air rifle?
** I’m a primary producer and need to control vermin, In the UK anyone over 17 can buy one, I’m not saying that’s right and maybe some level of control should be exercised in the UK. But over here an air rifle comes under the firearms act with all that entails. Suffice it to say getting one is very hard. And yes I do have a need.

* want something delivered within a week, sell your 2nd son - I think this depends on where you shop and what you want delievered!
** This is very inconsistent, I have got used to in the UK buying over the internet and if its in stock you normally get it next day or the day after. Here I’ve not had an instock item arrive any quicker than a week. Once again I think its just a mater of slowing my brain and expectations down to match the speed here.

* want to buy from ebay? pay more for postage than the winning bid! - errr -don't buy from E-Bay then. As far s I can tell this is pretty standard in the UK too?? (I've only ever bought one thing from E-Bay so couldn't rightly comment!)
** No I’ve bought and sold many things on E-Bay and in the UK normally a £20 object will only cost £2 to £3 to send anywhere in the UK, here so far a $20 thing cost anywhere from $10 to $25 to send. If E-Commerce is to take off here and be as big and successful as the UK then they need to sort out P&P, Its not just E-Bay, I just used that as an example.

* You must have more than 1 can of car spray paint in this whole town! (is this really a whinge about the colour of cars??? LOL!!)
** No, but seriously the shops here seem to have very low stock levels of things and the normal response I seem to get is, ‘No we only have one o unit of what your after, but we can get more within a week’ 3 weeks later and many phone calls later you might get what you wanted.

* What!! I have to pay a fine because *YOU* stole my car!! -This is stupid but again is it a nation-wide thing?
** Well its an RTA thing, is the RTA nation wide or just NSW? You could get fined if your car was stolen because you left it unlocked. The whole idea of a fine for leaving your car unlocked galls me, this should be a function of the insurance companies not a government body. No one likes their car stolen. But if you are daft enough to leave it unlocked then the insurance company should have something to say about it.

What!! you've given me DOUBLE demerit points on my licence because I commited a driving offence at xmas, easter and any other public holiday. was my crime worse because jesus was born?- err don't drink and drive or speed then! Lots of people manage to get where they want to go - fine free!! - without doing any of those things....
** No I don’t want to speed, its just I like consistency, The crime is no worse just because of a time of year. Believe it or not one of my reasons for leaving the UK was the nanny state, and even though I did plenty of research before coming here, I never realized just how much of a far more nanny state this place is. You are all treated like children. Whatever happened to the idea of the individual being responsible for his or her own welfare or actions.

Well good night all, I’ll be back in 6 months or so to see if my attitude to the place has changed, I hope it does.

Vegemite Kids

Cheers mate ! knew (deep down) you were a man of good taste

M

Tiawamutu

Exactly what I said....about the BOLLOCKS anyway

What it all boils down to (and it hasn't half boiled this thread!) is a certain person has, instead of giving 'general advice' like 'blurred' asked for, has decided to moan about anything and everything, and not actually answered his question!

This has led to a lot of people's time being wasted replying to the nonsense that wasn't really appropriately posted in the first place!

Go try finding a different thread or make one of your own if you want an argument....unless you actually want to help poor blurred

Pollyana

Could be at the root of a lot of your problems. You ARE an immigrant, like it or not. And when moving to another culture, the immigrant should try to fit into the culture they are moving to - however hard. And yes, I know its hard at times, I'm doing it.

But thats the way the Aussies are. And its their country. We have to learn to live with it.

I buy over the net often, and also receive gifts through the mail. No problem with customs at all. Same goes for ebay - if you don't like the poostage cost, don't buy!
I solved this one by using gestures to indicate a LARGE glass. Some pubs don't do pints - in the heat of Qld thats not always a bad thing Means you get the beer while its cool.

Won't comment on the rest due to lack of knowledge/interest/sleep!!!! (the latter is my excuse for any spelling errors!)

You need to remember though - we are in a different country, with different customs and rules. why should they change to accommodate us? Whats that old saying? "When in Rome........."

Vegemite Kids

try getting a decent Chinese, indian, thai in Germany, France, Norway, Denmark, Hungary, Czech rep, Turkey .....

You will be sadly disappointed !

paulf

Great thread, good posts Arkon, funny

Tiawamutu

Is that what you call them?