knockoff nige

Businesses have a fair tax rate and in some instances have very lucrative tax breaks. The business itself is a facility of employment and usually creates products services which are purchased by the consumer.

The business owner can go **** themselves if they believe they deserve to pay less tax because of this risk they take. The smart business people hold no risk, they spread risk amongst investors and capitalise on their good idea. They are successful on that idea, not the tax cut. The growth of the business depends on the consumer. Without the consumer, there are no jobs or wealth. This brings us back to the original point about GST being applied to fresh food etc making things less affordable and therefore causing less activity in the economy. Who exactly should benefit from keeping the economy ticking? A business owner who needs tax breaks to get started and to survive, or the consumer who actually puts the money back into circulation? That's why GST changes need to be less damaging to necessities. The proof of this of course was the stimulus package from the Rudd government that went a long way to steering Australia away from recession. Encouragement to spend in times of uncertainty. If this money went to businesses (as this stupid twit of a government is doing in the form of not increasing Super), we get less activity in the economy and, as a knock on affect, fewer jobs created as business owners don't wish to take the risk we would need them to.

You can sing the praises of these free loaders all you like but they are not the saviours you believe they are.

knockoff nige

Oh right, it wasn't tax deductible then? US tax payers didn't pay Apple a tax rebate on this purchase? And come on, you make a statement like 'other employees used it' without actually knowing anything about this jet, you look very foolish.

Beoz

Not as foolish when you say they don't. Can you hand on heart say that no other Apple employee set foot on the jet?

knockoff nige

Honestly, I didn't say they didn't and have no interest either way. I was just picking up on your nonsense point that they did. This conversation could be a Monty Python sketch.

GarryP

Yeah, I've come to that conclusion.

It's pretty obvious you haven't actually thought about what you are saying, or thought through what it means. You are playing right wing ideological talking points, not what they would mean in a real economy.

Regressive taxes, particularly at this point in the economic cycle, would be the ideal thing to send us into recession.

Amazulu

Someone has to build it too

Gulfstream are a top company, constantly innovating and pushing the envelope of performance (have a look at the G650). Employing thousands of highly skilled workers, all paying tax and many are also pushing themselves with new skills and training

This company basically exists to make jets for rich people, so without wealth would not exist

Alan Collett

Au contraire, Nige. The rate of company tax is too high in Australia - it needs to be reduced as a means of attracting overseas businesses to come here, set up, and employ the very consumers you have such a passion about.

This is precisely what the UK Government has been doing; last time I looked the UK economy is the only one in Europe having any meaningful prospect of getting itself out of the hole created by the previous administration. And there the rate of VAT is 20% ...

As for the superannuation point - super is effectively a tax on the payroll, and is a negative in terms of employment outcomes. As are the State payroll taxes. I'm not suggesting that there should be no super, but increasing the rate of superannuation contributions when economic growth is weak is not the way to encourage employment. It sends the wrong message.

Encourage businesses to employ through the tax system. Make the country attractive internationally as a place to do business. Employment outcomes are improved. You get more consumers, and Government finances improve.

I anticipate you'll disagree with this, but take a look at what is happening in the UK at the moment.

Best regards.

GarryP

Err, nope.

The picture you were trying to paint before, was of a multi-millionaire purchasing a boat out of petty cash and staffing it from his post tax income. But the reality is a tax write off, used by one individual with expenses claimed back via the company and offset against tax liabilities - meaning it resulted in less tax.

And let's not forget, it was this very same jet which Jobs used to jump the transplant queue inhabited by normal mortals, since he could claim he could fly anywhere at a moments notice for a transplant - so could appear on lots of states transplant queues.

Beoz

I wasn't living in Australia at the time but from all reports overseas it was the resources boom that steered Australia from the recession.

Just a thought, your concept will only discourage business owners right? Even though its your idea that they don't pay their share (thats another story). Without businesses, what do we do about the lost jobs?

Alan Collett

In your opinion.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Best regards.

knockoff nige

The consumer that I have such a passion for is keeping you in clothing and food in your belly.

Ireland have a very low corporate tax rate which attracts a lot of business to that part of the world. It also have a knock on affect in other parts of the world where profits are declared in the lower tax rated countries. The UK is one of those countries that is affected by this, as is Australia. If profits made in Australia had to be declared here, these companies would be paying a lot more tax. Even a lower rate from the correct profits would be higher than what they pay now. But of course you will rush to their defence.

Let me get this straight, we should encourage companies to higher more people by telling them they don't have to pay as much? That's dumb and not even applicable. Companies firstly usually offer salary packages, they also declare themselves what they can afford to pay - that's not set by the Federal government, in times of uncertainty most companies drop their salary offers and finally, we are not in times of uncertainty in the economy. Our economy is thriving. Thanks to the consumer still willing to spend their money.

Take a look at what is happening in Ireland at the moment. They are making movements to increase corporate tax rates in order to get companies to pay their 'fair share' and be aligned with most of the rest of the world.

Employers are not our rulers, they need us as much as we need them. But we all need consumers most.

Beoz

Well many company assets are tax write offs. Are we still trying to suggest the jet belonged to Steve personally? I do the same if I buy a new gadget for work purposes and or if I use fuel for work purposes. Don't you?

Beoz

The company I worked for moved its European HQ to Dublin to take advantage of this about 6 years ago. The dublin office now employs 500. If they changed this they would move again making those who wouldn't relocate unemployed. I don't think you need to think really hard to figure out the issues if Ireland were to do this.

knockoff nige

All reports overseas you say? Google it and find the response from other nations on Australia's response to the recession. You'll find that the stimulus package was commended as a massive reason we avoided recession. I was here in October 2008 and saw first hand how reluctant these risk taking business owners were of employing people. They were not rushing to save the day for Australia. They wanted no part of it. They let people go. Then, they quickly hired back up again once the consumer bought their plasmas and nespressos and created belief. The fearless business owners took a peak out from behind the curtains and saw the rain had cleared. And we all lived happily every after.

We don't discourage business owners. If there is an opportunity for profit, it will be taken by anyone who sees it possible. That's for anyone to see, by the way. There is no business owner race, they don't just 'live amongst us'.

knockoff nige

Steve needed that jet, didn't he? A tax write off is not so good for the tax payer when it's a ****** jet.