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Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Old Dec 17th 2006, 10:03 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by jad n rich
The reason Tamworth cropped up is australia takes a lot of immigrants including refugees. Its opted on a sensible policy of trying to integrate them everywhere not just in a few areas. Of course it has not got control over all types of immigrant, many races oversubscribe certain areas and send schools etc into chaos.

Tamworths not being asked to do anymore than any other town, city etc in australia is likely to be asked to do - take some refugees. Any area could be asked, any area can be selected to do its bit. People complain UK's got "little poland" etc, well here the govs taking refugees and placing them all over, but people are complaing about that too.
Apart for all else, first my "Little Poland".
It seems to have escaped what brain the likes of Blair have; If you open the immigration doors and allow freedom to travel across all EU borders to any country, asylum apart, in countries where workers have a monthly income of A$200 or less and those out of work get only what they steal, it stands to reason that there will be an exedus. Granted the Poles work but they are working at ratres that puts the UK small companies out of business.

I read recently that UK imigration by skilled workers was affecting the wages in places like Sydney and that Howards new bill could mean that Aussie companies stay with Aussie labour because sponsoring poms will now cost the company more. Perhaps poms working in aussie companies can say how they are treated.

Tamworth has made a stand..no more. ( BTW the same "spread um out" policy applys in the UK also..and the councils all over the UK are refusing to be overloaded also..its a world problem.)
Basically everybody misses the real point of all this. Its the change thats the problem. Say nothing drip in one or two individuals and nobody would notice. Until they bring their families, friends who bring in their ...etc. Before long the "balance" of population will change..because many whites" will pack up and go elsewhere. Its an historic fact, in the UK, every town or city has "ghetto" area's of pakistani's dating back to to the early seventies and , house prices fell in the "ghetto: area's and the whites moved out selling to the pakistani's.

Tamworth seems to be saying they complied with a request to take asylum seekers, took them into the community and it went sour for the reason they have stated. Instead of slagging Tamworth ask the asylum seekers why they have abused the system and the community which took them in and GAVE them a save place to live.
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 10:19 pm
  #92  
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by Vinny van Gogh
Tamworth seems to be saying they complied with a request to take asylum seekers, took them into the community and it went sour for the reason they have stated. Instead of slagging Tamworth ask the asylum seekers why they have abused the system and the community which took them in and GAVE them a save place to live.
But why do other assylum seekers who haven't proven themselves either way be punished for the actions of others just because they come from the same ethnic background? I think that the abusers of the system should be punished for their own crimes, not have others suffer for what they did.

All people should be taken as and treated as individuals, even if a higher proportion of their particular ethnic group happen to be more active in crime when compared to the general population.

Armidale which is a town just north of Tamworth has commented that they have had mostly good experiences with their Sudanese refugee families. So it goes to show that you cannot predict exactly how each family will turn out.

The idea of giving every individual a "fair go" is a strong Australian tradition and it seems that Tamworth haven't lived up to that in this case.
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

We can all argue until we are blue in the face.

Inequality causes problems the world over. It's just that now other nations and continents want a part of the action. N America, Australia and W Europe are a minority.

Analysing it completely objectively as Gogh does, there is a problem in Europe which has threatened to raise it's head since the fall of Communism and now a mechanism (EU expansion) by which some sort of equilibrium can be gained has been put in place, at the expense of the 'better off'. It will take time - generations.

That's before you even start on Asylum and Africa.
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by jad n rich
What most immigrants to OZ are in within the year, what do those going to canada reckon 5 years.

So how many years do refugees spend in some hell hole camp before aus rescues them anyway, bet its more than 12 months.

Never mind you'll understand more about it when you live here, chat to your neighbours they might be refugees
May well be as you say...but
Contributory Parent visa..sponsors have to be resident for 2 years before an application can be made...process time 12 months minimum-total three years.

I suspect your hell hole camps are just that...for those who cannot get away. The ones getting out and claiming asylum do so to avoid being in those camps.

Last edited by Vinny van Gogh; Dec 17th 2006 at 10:51 pm.
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 10:44 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
We can all argue until we are blue in the face.



Analysing it completely objectively as Gogh does, .
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 10:51 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

A walk to the cooler and back has made me realise I'd rather these Poles 'go home' at some point. Taking their newly found money, skills, broadened horizons, and travel back to a country that needs them and their identity.

UK migrants - we're different possibly, the UK can still do well without us(!)

Having said that a lot of Brits are taking the opportunity to buy homes in the East so its still win-win for everyone.
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by Vinny van Gogh
May well be as you say...but
Contributory Parent visa..sponsors have to be resident for 2 years before an application can be made...process time 12 months minimum-total three years.

I suspect your hell hole camps are just that...for those who cannot get away. The ones getting out and claiming asylum do so to avoid being in those camps.
Australias taking refugees who are in the camps, australian ESL teachers are working in them, our local tafe was offereing free ESL training for people who will volunteer to work for free. In fact there is talk of setting up australian tafe units in refugee camps, dont know how much substance there is in that, but there was a bit of an uproar with some claiming aussie kids cant get places so why send resources overseas.

What has to be remembered is the majority of the refugees we are taking seem to be families, one man, one woman and several children. Australias not doing this from a completly kind hearted angle. We have an aging population, one the birth rate cant support. Australias not picking refugees with 6/8 children for no reason, they want those kids, they hope they will grow up, populate, work etc.
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 11:19 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by Vinny van Gogh
I suspect your hell hole camps are just that...for those who cannot get away. The ones getting out and claiming asylum do so to avoid being in those camps.
The Sudanese coming to Australia are refugees - Australia takes them in accordance with their international obligations under the UN Refugees Convention. Most western countries do the same.

These Sudanese refugees arriving in Australia HAVE spent years in 'hell-hole' refugee camps in Chad, Egypt and Kenya. They're the poor ones left behind with no alternative - they're certainly not 'asylum seekers' with the wherewithal to get out under their own steam.
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 11:39 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
We can all argue until we are blue in the face.

Inequality causes problems the world over. It's just that now other nations and continents want a part of the action. N America, Australia and W Europe are a minority.

Analysing it completely objectively as Gogh does, there is a problem in Europe which has threatened to raise it's head since the fall of Communism and now a mechanism (EU expansion) by which some sort of equilibrium can be gained has been put in place, at the expense of the 'better off'. It will take time - generations.

That's before you even start on Asylum and Africa.
You have it my hobby horse....

All empires will eventually fall. Take any point in history, any "superior" country, ruler,overlord, despot, or labour government and its days are numbered.

The USA & Australia survive as a group of allied states or united, because they were a wildness populated by refugee's from starvation, religion or jail, some by choice. In the case of Oz, not all the early settlers were convicts,many were "free" and came at their own expence. mainly because they had heard of the vast amount of free land..but I digress.

The USSR comprised slave states of mother Russia- most of who had a bit of an objection to the situtaion but no choice. Remember the invasion of Hungry because they tried for independance and the then Prome Minister who ended up as a clerk in a lumber company miles from anywhere!
The USSR sank because it could not carry the finacial burden it created for itself.
So what do we do...typically British, we ignore the signs and join up with two nations who for the last 400 years have done everything thing they could to defeat the British.
France feared that Germany would kick off again...so they signed a steel treaty...cos if you intend a war..you need steel and you can watch whats going on!
Then they extend that to other european countries and include farming...and re-name it the common market.
Now, having helped DeGaule, who was not liked or truested by the allies in WW2 - or the french for that matter.. he then takes revenge for Churchill trying to have his plane shot down..it was alledged...and made the famous 'Non" when Ted Heath panicked and thought they were ganging up on us, so he asked to join the club.
Anyway..as we have seen the common market became the EU with its own goverment and completed what Hitler and the Armada failed to do..subjugate the British.

But the EU is not "united" and is a collection of politician's brownie points and dont think any of them give a toss for the mess they create...they have lots of money and wont live anywhere near the cess pits they helped make.
Just watch in about 2 - 3 years as Lord Anthony Blair MBE wizzes by you in his Rolls, that is when he is not stopping with buddy Georgy Bush, oil billionaire.

Now tell me, how do you class Turkey, a muslim country more affiliated to the middle east than to middle wopping- as "European" likewise all the new influx of donkey & cart nations.

The E.U. will collapse in less than 50 years when they realise that 10 rich countries being soaked dry trying to finance 20 "third world" hicksville countries, as Russia found out -is a lost cause. Stick that in your diary for reference.

England will by then be a muslim controlled country under sharia law.
How, well the whites stopped having more than 2 kids long ago. Its not the same in any muslim country. And they are wanting to be in England and the English dont like it, cannot do a thing about and move out.

Now England complies with its EU obligations and takes in the free to travel EU citizens and asylum seekers. Most of who have a standard of living lower than my great grandad had in 1876.
The more immigrants you get, the more the social structure changes. We already have Pakistani MPs (and too many scottish) Slowly the population mix leave the original white English a minority. Reduced in number by emmigration and lack of growth in family numbers.

To qualify this...how many "asians" are in Oz and they are an increasing ethnic group. After the white only immigration was removed the population of Australia changed. What you see in Oz and America will happen in England.

Sorry...got carried away there!
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Old Dec 17th 2006, 11:59 pm
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Some of your points are alarmist but others perfectly valid.

Vinny, I covered the EU alot at Uni years ago, law and institutions and it is interesting the issues that were raised back then now becoming a reality.I'd almost long forgotten it all until now.

It has occured to me, whenever anyone complains about the rules in Australia, just how many rules that the EU make and will have to make to make the bigger EU viable. It seems to me, no other 'customs union' in the world has the disparity (in culture) and numbers of countries that the EU has - and all wanting to be 'First world' or near First World..
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Old Dec 18th 2006, 12:31 am
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by BadgeIsBack
Some of your points are alarmist but others perfectly valid.

Vinny, I covered the EU alot at Uni years ago, law and institutions and it is interesting the issues that were raised back then now becoming a reality.I'd almost long forgotten it all until now.

It has occured to me, whenever anyone complains about the rules in Australia, just how many rules that the EU make and will have to make to make the bigger EU viable. It seems to me, no other 'customs union' in the world has the disparity (in culture) and numbers of countries that the EU has - and all wanting to be 'First world' or near First World..
I dont know if I have given the wrong impression..but I am not having a go at the Oz state or federal government,Tamorth council or against having asylum seekers into Oz. I simply give my views and in most cases opinions formed from experience.

To digress from the thread, Africa is a collection of countries with a variation in wealth, capability and desire to look their respective population.
Africa is, collectivley, probably in a better position than Australia and if they formed a United States of Africa, despite my views on these colectives, it would be better all around.
As it is its the guy with the biggest and most guns who rules.
You then take a largely uneducated population and indoctrinate any religious or political lesson you wish. You give a 8 year old a rifle and tell him to kill the other guy.
And the so called civilised west does nothing to prevent his. Nor for that matter does any African country try to intervene and negotiate and that is why literally millions of Africans, who now have computers we dumped sent to them and even have the internet to see how the rich western countries can be attainable.

BUT..how do you install white western values into that grown up 8 year old who thinks nothing of killing. How do you convince tham taking another perons possessions is wrong.
This is the crux of the Tamworth complaint.
So maybe Australia and the others who are taking in Africans should first educate them in western values before letting them into a friendly community.
And I still maintain that each A.S. be made aware..break the law..you go to jail and then we send you and your family back to Africa.

The E.U. is doomed and its just a matter of time. Simple facts take the wealth of any ten rich countries and share it out, you than have 30 countries and none all that rich any more. Its a parasitic situation and the parasite having taken all it can departs for richer pickings. England, France, Germany and the other "rich" and established countries will be weakened to the extent that their heritage, history and values are reduced to nil.

Too open an old sore.... England banned the St George Flag being displyed, the red cross on white was the flag of the crusaders! Banned in primary schools, -nativity concerts in case it offends the muslims! Wait till they ban Christmas and Easter!
This is not an anti muslim rant, its a look at how stupid and lacking in common sence the English politicians and jobsworths are.
I will bet the majority of muslims dont give a toss about flags and kids school play's. The radical will take advantage of a weakness though.

I suggest everybody rationalise the whole situation like this..buy a fish tank and put in the right number and size of fish it can accomdate. Result a balanced healthy community. Now add more fish as the original fish also increase by breeding young and you get a disfunctional community as the big fish bully the small ones and the whole tank becomes murkey and not nice.

If its so obvious to see the solution to the fish tank problem...why do we do the same with people?
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Old Dec 18th 2006, 12:41 am
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by Vinny van Gogh
I

I suggest everybody rationalise the whole situation like this..buy a fish tank and put in the right number and size of fish it can accomdate. Result a balanced healthy community. Now add more fish as the original fish also increase by breeding young and you get a disfunctional community as the big fish bully the small ones and the whole tank becomes murkey and not nice.

If its so obvious to see the solution to the fish tank problem...why do we do the same with people?
Malthus believed this would put limits on growth - however this was disproved by the Industrial Revolution.
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Old Dec 18th 2006, 12:51 am
  #103  
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by Dom the Pom
Migrants from the Sudan and Somalia have been flooding into to Perth as well. Crime rates within areas such as Tuart Hill have escalated, and there have been numerous gang clashes with Aboriginies.

Perhaps one day civilised, western cultures will no longer have to endure this misery.
My understanding is that these clashes came about as the Africans tried to hussle in on the local drug trade the Aborigines have been running. Ther have also been instances where groups of African youths have been carrying and throwing large knives in public parks.

I don't care where someone is from or what they look like. If they start carrying on like this and intimidating law abiding citizens then the time has come for govts to step in and come down tough. Thuggery and violence cannot be allowed to continue with piss weak responses by the govts and courts. People have the right to feel and be safe in their homes, in the streets and anywhere they bloody well chose to go in this country. This should be of the utmost importance to all western governments, right alongside social justice. You cannot have a just society when it turns it's eye away and whacks things into the 'too hard basket"
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Old Dec 18th 2006, 1:12 am
  #104  
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by kiwi_child
My understanding is that these clashes came about as the Africans tried to hussle in on the local drug trade the Aborigines have been running. Ther have also been instances where groups of African youths have been carrying and throwing large knives in public parks.

I don't care where someone is from or what they look like. If they start carrying on like this and intimidating law abiding citizens then the time has come for govts to step in and come down tough. Thuggery and violence cannot be allowed to continue with piss weak responses by the govts and courts. People have the right to feel and be safe in their homes, in the streets and anywhere they bloody well chose to go in this country. This should be of the utmost importance to all western governments, right alongside social justice. You cannot have a just society when it turns it's eye away and whacks things into the 'too hard basket"
I think your comments are spot on. The problem is that - at least in the UK - you have a bunch of "equal rights" and "human rights" solicitors and barristors, Cherie Blair being one of them, who take clients funded by legal aid to the tune of millions per year, to go to court to fight their case.
Because there are laws in place, the judge is bound to adjudicate on the law and the validity of the claimant case.
Now we take one of your knife slinging thugs who arrived from Sudan or Samalia, the judge says guilty, deport the sod. The barristor says, sorry mate, you cannot do that because he fled in fear of his life and if he goes back he may be killed. So he stays - maybe with a jail term.. but jail is a lot better than a muddy field and no food. Anyway, in the UK he would not get jail. If the solicitor could prove no other offences and he was only defending himself...likely as not it would be not guilty sorry mate- now lets lock up the bugger who offended you.

So if you know about the gang fights..what did the police know and what did they do?

The Ozzie government after much refusal have agreed to take a share of the African millions. 10.000 a year I am sure was the figure.
Remember the new Citizenship stuff about speaking English, well I recall hearing about a Sydney asylum seeker while back in the UK, an African family was given a flat, could not speak any English and there was a problems which resulted in a death, because they did not know about the emergency services or any telephone numbers and their "social worker" was off for the weekend.
Will Mr Howards new cistizenship requirement affect 10000 African asylum seekers?

Last edited by Vinny van Gogh; Dec 18th 2006 at 1:14 am.
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Old Dec 18th 2006, 1:16 am
  #105  
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Default Re: Black refugees not welcome in Tamworth

Originally Posted by Vinny van Gogh
England will by then be a muslim controlled country under sharia law.
Get a grip.
Anyone who actually believes this needs their head examining.
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