Beoz

In fact those numbers are possibility too high. We need immigrants to fill positions which are left field which is where we really struggle. If I look at all the 457's in my business, none hold occupations where there is direct correlation with their degree. The degree was just a foot in the door when they left university and their job types have evolved since for which there is no such degree at universities.

Yep those numbers are way too high for skilled migration. We should be looking at 40% or less for those with degrees from English speaking backgrounds.

the troubadour

What we should be doing is raising the minimum amount deemed legal to pay 457's at $53,000 to at least the average $80,000 plus before importing workers which are directly going into competition with home based workers already on the ground.

Beoz

On one hand that's good, more income, more tax. But on the other hand that could damage your ability to get on the property ladder by raising salaries - remember you said that yourself. I don't mind increasing the limit, but what is that limit? One industry is different to the next. You cannot base everything on a single figure.

Don't forget, employee sponsored (457's) only makes up 37% of the 128,000 odd business and skills driven visas in 2016/2017 and that is half of what it previously was the year before.

Students are huge numbers and they add to the economy. Would you cut students in the fear they might buy property or stay?

What's your driver? Property right? Why not just limit what students can buy?

the troubadour

As stated bringing in low earning 457's on $53,000 is bad for everyone apart from the exploitative employer and those presently in Australia in completion with the low paid compliant entrants whom may or may not gain depending on treatment.


A student visa should not be the means to PR in most cases. The selling of immigration through student visa's never a wise move.


Lower standards over the years have resulted with education cutbacks and reliance on foreign students to supplement lost income. Not to mention the loss of places to home students.


The government has little interest in limiting foreign student rights of Australian property ownership. In fact they appear not to police restrictions such as sale of said property on student departure. In fact have made it easier in recent times for carers of primary school foreign entrants to engage in the property charade.


You don't appear to require an increase in salaries to get onto 'the property ladder'. Banks are already adjusting mortgage rates to entice/accommodate ever more into the conflated property market and servitude to ever more debt.

Beoz

I think you will find the new system has a requirement that the employer must PROVE they pay the skilled worker accordingly.

Read to the end (as I always say). Not sure you've kept up. Its right at the bottom.

You must provide terms and conditions of employment that are no less favourable than those that would apply to an Australian citizen or Australian permanent resident doing equivalent work in the same workplace.

You must prove to us that you will pay your skilled worker the market salary rate.

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/186-


OK so maybe this should be your target area.

Maybe it needs better policing. Or maybe you are working on assumption, like your incorrect assumptions on skilled worker numbers and requirements.

OK so what's the problem then?

the troubadour

Besides being a cheer leader for the Ponzi immigration fiasco devouring parts of Australia, your economic literacy needs a long hard look at as well


Now what could be wrong with banks lowering interest rates on mortgages in order to arrest falling prices, in a time of over inflated housing and close to highest personal debt in the world?

Beoz

So when all the stats and rules don't stack up against your agenda, you end up calling it a ponzi scheme. Amazing.

the troubadour

Only agenda, if that is what you want to call it, is bring to attention the rapid decline of living standards in Australia.


You have not produced a single stat and no idea with what you refer to by rules, there are few in the political/business sponsored destruction of a way of life that once was considered the norm for most Australians.


There has been no discussion with regards to a Big Australia. Few appear to have much insight into how life will look over the coming decades.


When immigration is used to shore up an economy with little else in place it is called a Ponzi economy. You really ought to study basic economics before attempting a discussion with such repletion and with so little insight into the subject prior to subjecting yourself to such innate comments.


I guess Wikipedia only goes so far, although a little further than Coalition policy, admittingly which is taking this country towards a rather sad future.


Of course, as you have been warned, expect the devious Coalition to introduce some token changes at the very least pre election in an attempt to win over the ever increasing dissent out there with regards to population over load.

the troubadour

I fully expect the Four Corners program on at 8.30 tonight will be compromised somewhat with the wings of the ABC clipped somewhat from straying too far from official policy.


Their funding has been cut by Coalition even though Turnbull used Q & A numerous occasions to sell himself as a progressive ....


Q & A have a forthcoming debate on the immigration over load crisis coming up in the near future as well, I'm led to believe.

Beoz

You had to mention the Coalition ..... bad move.

I believe this belongs to them. Not that I agree with it, but you do.

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/186-

the troubadour

Bad move? Little change beyond window dressing. Coalition will change spots as per normal closer to election. Unless of course they know the game is up and leave the mess to ALP in order to win advantage in the following election.

Beoz

Everything you cry out for has been done. You know who to vote for if you want action over your silly little short sighted ideals about skilled workers.

Beoz

I had quick peek at this late on Iview. I must admit, I fell asleep but will catch up with the rest later.

It was kind of comical, in one sense the program and presenter were determined to convince us population growth was bad.

On the other hand they kept showing historical population drives in Australia, mainly from the 50's and 60's where the same negative propaganda was being sold, like you are today, and in the end, only positives came from that growth.

Then they rolled out Bob Carr who was determined to tell us that if population expanded, we would need to buy tickets to do the Bondi to Bronte walk, but then later on other pundits told us that Sydney was in catch up mode because of lack of infrastructure investment in the past. At that point they really should of rolled at the man responsible for that ...... Bob Carr. ..... comical.

Dicks Smith claim was that Zetland is now full of high rise and and this is where houses with backyards once stood. Then he said factories once stood there, and the houses were a few streets away. Poor old Dick got kind of confused.

Then Dick said that everyone wanted the big house with big backyard and no one wants to live in an apartment and this is why growth is bad. Really Dick ....... Really ..... I certainly don't want 500 square metres of lawn to mow every weekend.

So in the end (well it wasn't the end I just feel asleep) the answer was that population growth is fine if infrastructure, schools, and hospitals keep getting built to service demand, and they are here, not sure about elsewhere.

Oh I forgot to mention, baby boomers, that was interesting, without population growth and tax income we wouldn't be able to support the baby boomers as they age.

How did it end up? Will catch up with the punch line later.

the troubadour

Nothing has been done and the rorts continue. But I know very well who not to vote for that is a certainty. Meanwhile you cheer on the diminishing quality of life that was once unheard of in Australia.

Beoz

The rorts continue. Ok show me?