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to all tradies coming to oz

Old Feb 28th 2007, 9:48 am
  #31  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by nik04
you mean the same as in the UK for an employed gas fitter, you are held personally responsible for every job you do, not the company you work for. All people (foriegn tradies) are asking for is a fair crack at what they have trained to do for many years, and most are more than competent to do. Not end up on shyte wages for doing the same job as licenced guy, most of us came here because we thought tradesmen were i short supply not to become some cheap imported labour that will end up driving down Aus tradies wages.
Weve employed blokes from overseas, I'm sorry if you dont want to hear this but many dont know the australian rules and regualtions, some will go on all week about how its done in the UK, who cares its not the way it will pass inspection here. Harsh maybe but true. If you want a licence its in your own interest to exaclty the way its done here, a few months of training or getting to know the rules and regs might save you tens of thousands in rectification years down the track.

Main driving down of the wages we see is immigrant tradies submitting ridicul ously cheap prices to undercut existing tradies and get a foot in the door. Another problem is the cheap migrant workers brought in from asia, but thats more a problem in the west.

Tradesmen in short supply, In some areas yes, but housing booms come and go, many areas now have a glut of tradesmen looking for work.
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 9:55 am
  #32  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

I have no problem with making tradies learn rules and regs of their new country, nothin a course at TAFE or a good read of a regs book wont fix, but most of the time it's almost like going back to day 1. Hows the old saying go about grandma and sucking eggs
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 10:03 am
  #33  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by nik04
I have no problem with making tradies learn rules and regs of their new country, nothin a course at TAFE or a good read of a regs book wont fix, but most of the time it's almost like going back to day 1. Hows the old saying go about grandma and sucking eggs
Sons an apprentice, to get that 5 MONTHS of interviews, hundreds of applicants, 3 entrance exams, medicals, then 4 years of being sent anywhere in QLD on call 24/7 working flood, cyclone or hell like temps, plus TAFE, endless study and constant exams. After that he can APPLY for his licence and a job. It really is just as hard for aussies.
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 10:09 am
  #34  
 
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Argh I'm getting confused (it's not difficult I know)

Right can anyone tell me what exactly Dale will need to do in order to work as a Carpenter & Joiner, say for example in Queensland. He is quite happy to do any course that he needs to, he's done it before as he's got his City & Guilds Advanced Craft many moons ago.

I'm not sure whether him having his C&G will help him over there but we intend to bring all his certificates and suchlike anyway.

We just want to get him up and running workwise asap so anything we can do to prepare would be a great help
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 10:19 am
  #35  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Thats just my point, ask him after 20 years in the trade to do that all again. I am not trying to be a pain, just trying to make sure people have their eyes wide open when that plane lands.
Good luck to your boy once he gets that ticket he'll not be looking back.
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 10:19 am
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by jad n rich
Sons an apprentice, to get that 5 MONTHS of interviews, hundreds of applicants, 3 entrance exams, medicals, then 4 years of being sent anywhere in QLD on call 24/7 working flood, cyclone or hell like temps, plus TAFE, endless study and constant exams. After that he can APPLY for his licence and a job. It really is just as hard for aussies.
But the difference being the tradies coming over have already done the collage exams etc in the uk and many have done the job for years, top come over here and be treated like a apprentice again is very annoying!!

Its not an isue of aussie's have do to do the same or not, it's more the fact that they get into australia because of the skills they have then when they get here have to prove it all again!!
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 10:41 am
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by kez81
But the difference being the tradies coming over have already done the collage exams etc in the uk and many have done the job for years, top come over here and be treated like a apprentice again is very annoying!!

Its not an isue of aussie's have do to do the same or not, it's more the fact that they get into australia because of the skills they have then when they get here have to prove it all again!!

Dont look at that training as annoying, look at it as its there to PROTECT you.

I am repeating myself now but people are still missing this point - once you start performing work on your licence YOU can be dragged through the BSA/and or courts if necessary if anything about that work is later found to be at fault. It happens all the time and its often a very nasty business with lots of legal stuff flying back and forth and nasty buck passing.

Yes people trained for years in the UK, but this isnt the UK. That bit of hassle up front may save you a lot of legal hassle later on
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 10:42 am
  #38  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by kez81
But the difference being the tradies coming over have already done the collage exams etc in the uk and many have done the job for years, top come over here and be treated like a apprentice again is very annoying!!

Its not an isue of aussie's have do to do the same or not, it's more the fact that they get into australia because of the skills they have then when they get here have to prove it all again!!
I agree with you, to say you can do the job without learning some of the terminology and practices is wrong, it's just that we have all been apprentices when we started and don't need to go their again. As I previously said all it needs is correct implementation of the whole procedure by the people at the top' so that families can arrive here and have the minimal time away from earning good wages in order to support our families. At the end of the day the longer we have to rely on Family Assistance the worse it is for the country, surely.
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 10:44 am
  #39  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Just to add to the grumbles,

I have never faced or been in such a torturous or disappointing situation. The full system is complete crap. We were sponsored by the victorian government as thomas plumbing, gas corgi qualified. Done tra and told that the scottish qualification was most like the aussie apparently and we spent 5 years doing our homework. Then you get here and face nothing but complete incompetancy and sheer and utter bad system and service. We arrived on xmas day in victoria, we submitted fees for licence and registration to victorian plumbing industry in august 2006 knowing there would be a wait. Still no email 6 weeks later but suprisingly have taken the fee, so then email them and advise of contact details when arriving in aus, and advised been waiting a long time, no response from them. Get here call them and they tell me they have sent a letter to uk, aye whit goods that, so then ask for a copy to be forwarded to me in aus, takes them 4 weeks, by which time i received my uk one on mail redirection.
They then tell me that we need to pay more money and all we paid initially was to get a reference number, and that thomas has to sit the exams, GREAT progress such a difference a day makes or 3 friggin years in aussie terms. So then they tell us that he has to wait 6 to 9 months to sit the friggin exams and that he cant work in plumbing until he has them as illegal, funny as he was offered a job the week before with a plumbing firm. Then they say that he needs an interview, so wait another 3 weeks on that, and they tell him they have decided to let him work under a company and get them to sign work off and he needs to go to tafe , pay for courses and they'll let him sit exams although he has already paid this, and then send another form out with the application from the start, i mean what the frig type of company are they running, nobody has a clue , there is no communication, total false pretences and simply money making scheme into the bargain.
Thomas is working casually as a labourer at the marina for crap money in the meantime while waiting to sit exams. There is simply no consistency and they change the rules to suit and the receptionists, well forget it, no clue at all.
We never thought it would be so challenging, thomas is so pixxed off he has applied for a completley different role altogether in esso, and willing to give a life career up, something that he worked on really hard in uk with british gas. Now we have calmed down a bit, we see it as if well it got us here his trade, and sometimes everything happens for a reason, and they may be better things to come if thats what works for us. Just be prepared for a long journey for the future plumbers. We accept you need reg and kicence but to have no communication and wait as long is ridiculous.

sj
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 11:11 am
  #40  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by jad n rich
Dont look at that training as annoying, look at it as its there to PROTECT you.

I am repeating myself now but people are still missing this point - once you start performing work on your licence YOU can be dragged through the BSA/and or courts if necessary if anything about that work is later found to be at fault. It happens all the time and its often a very nasty business with lots of legal stuff flying back and forth and nasty buck passing.

Yes people trained for years in the UK, but this isnt the UK. That bit of hassle up front may save you a lot of legal hassle later on
No one has said it should be like the UK and I agree that the hassle up front could save you a lot of legal hassle later on, what everyone one is fed up with is the complete lack of communication between the TRA / TAFE and the Department of Immigration. All it would take is the exact rules on licensing/Certificate requirements to be spelt out at the TRA stage of the immigration process which would give everyone the chance to decide if they want to go onto the next stage. A simple answer from the TRA along the lines of "You are classified as a carpenter/joiner but we envisage you attending the local TAFE for 3 months at a cost of $2,000.00 would help that decision.
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 11:17 am
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by pogsy
No one has said it should be like the UK and I agree that the hassle up front could save you a lot of legal hassle later on, what everyone one is fed up with is the complete lack of communication between the TRA / TAFE and the Department of Immigration. All it would take is the exact rules on licensing/Certificate requirements to be spelt out at the TRA stage of the immigration process which would give everyone the chance to decide if they want to go onto the next stage. A simple answer from the TRA along the lines of "You are classified as a carpenter/joiner but we envisage you attending the local TAFE for 3 months at a cost of $2,000.00 would help that decision.
Helloo can you just tell me is that full time for 3 months?
What happens after you've completed that?

Edit: Sorry that sounded a bit demanding didn't it, wasn't intended that way
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 11:24 am
  #42  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by Clippies
Helloo can you just tell me is that full time for 3 months?
What happens after you've completed that?

Edit: Sorry that sounded a bit demanding didn't it, wasn't intended that way
Hi there,
The 3 months is what I was told by the TAFE. They have to look at all your paperwork and you do a very infromal interview with them, based on that they give you an estimated time frame for you to obtain the Certificat 3 which is what you need to get the trade license. Then you pay some more money and apply to the Department of Fair Trade for your license, hope this helps.
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 11:27 am
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by pogsy
Hi there,
The 3 months is what I was told by the TAFE. They have to look at all your paperwork and you do a very infromal interview with them, based on that they give you an estimated time frame for you to obtain the Certificat 3 which is what you need to get the trade license. Then you pay some more money and apply to the Department of Fair Trade for your license, hope this helps.
Thank you Is it 3 months full time or is that just of an evening do you know?
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 11:48 am
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by thomas and sarahjayne
and they tell him they have decided to let him work under a company and get them to sign work off and he needs to go to tafe
sj
i thought this sort of thing only happened in england.
seems it happens all over the world..

it does seem a shame that the agencies cant get together and at least let the trades know what to expect..
i wonder how many trades would emigrate if they knew
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Old Feb 28th 2007, 7:08 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: to all tradies coming to oz

Originally Posted by jad n rich
Just read what I wrote, nothing in it is shite, its fact. If you want to mouth off about someones post kindly point out what part you feel is incorrect.

Never once felt stuffed up by the system, all it means is the persons working for us are totally 100% responsible for their work and will be for many years.

Never had a problem renewing any of our licences, your sent a renewal, bit of paperwork, and a small fee. Any professional should manage that on time.
in answer to you ( sorry its a bit long winded )

firstly my personnal qualifications ive put these in so you can see that i know what i`m talking about ( well, when it comes to electrical installation work and practises anyway )

i`m 45 qualified with city and guilds 236 a & b in electrical installation work,
i also have hold a city and guilds 240 in electrical design and inspection
ive been a JIB registered sparkie since the 80`s
and an NIC registered qualifying manager and contractor fo the last 12 years
as an NIC contractor i was regulary inspected by the NIC`s electrical inspectors ( for my work standards, my certification of installations, and to check that i was working / trained to the latest version of the standards )

now thats out of the way you asked me to point out what part you feel is incorrect. so here goes

firstly to work as an electrican / electrical contractor in aus the following is required

you apply for the tra
you apply for your visa
onceyou arrive you then have to apply back to the tra for your artc using the same info as the tra ( 1 month wait )
you sit a cpr course ( australian version whilst waiting )
you sit a heath and saftey course ( ditto )
you apply to the elctrical safety office for a licence ( 1 month wait )
they issue a temp licence to work under supervision whilst you attend the tafe or an approved australian electrical installation and testing course
unfortunutley the only tafe doing this course in southern qld when we arrived was yeronga in bisbane
it starts in feb and finishes in aug and they wont allow anyone to start after the first couple of weeks so if you arrived in say april you would wait untill the next feb for a new course to start
the course is one day a week and costs $2400 dollars
you finish your course apply for your full licence ( 1 month wait ) and then have to re enroll in the tafe 12 months later to do your contractors course ( you need a minimum 12 months as an licenced electrician before you can apply to do the contractors course )

so its a minimum of 1 year once you arrive to get an electrical licence and the best part of 3 years to get a contractors licence

this helps who?
this makes for better trade people

it certainly dosnt help the austalians who urgentley require trade people and definatley not the guys who come over here with out a shed full of money to get them through this period




question? why do you have to send of all your information to the TRA for immigration then send exactly the same information to another section of the TRA for your ARTC

same info sent twice to the same department ??
and this helps to screen out what? who?
this makes for better tradesmen does it ?? personnaly i cannot see how ??
if the info was valid and correct the first time why make you repeat it ?
it doesn't make any sense what so ever and serves no one but pen pushing bureaucrats


another question how many licences have you personally replaced ??
you stated
"Never had a problem renewing any of our licences, your sent a renewal, bit of paperwork, and a small fee. Any professional should manage that on time"

as the electrical licence is valid for five years ( in qld )
and you dont seem to have been working in aus for five years how can you have replaced a licence ???
also if the licences are replaced ever five years as a busy working tradesman
you would have to be on the ball to remember after so long that your licence was due on such and such a date,
so how many licences have you renewed ???



agian on licencing i personally know of several trades people who have one one reason or another given up, mostley due to the finacial strain caused by poor employment prospects as a temp licence holder and having to work under supervison, dont get me wrong i can see why aussie companies wont give them a break as having someone on your books who has to be chaperoned by another tradie is costly and a lot of jobs / projects wont allow the luxury of two men doing one job

these guys are now working in menial jobs to provide for their families
as an example
fencing ( corgi heating engineer )
mainataince man ( corgi plumber )
gardener ( JIB electrician )

surly this is massve waste of resources and skill


another question? why wont australian aurthorites accept a CPR course from overseas ?? ( or another state for that matter )in order to get my temp licence i needed a cpr course so i went off to the electrical safety office with my artc, blue card and cpr course certificate
sorry we cannot accept your cpr certificates as there are not australian ?
i`m a qualified medic first aider and a qualified rescue diver
sorry we dont recognize any qualifications that are not australian
do aussie hearts beat differently then ??
so i had to go down to the australian st johns and do another cpr course
which obviously i passed
this again has nothing to do with improving standards

whilst attending the st johns cpr course i got chatting to the guy running the course hes about 50 ish an australian and he`s lived here all his life, he trained in NSW to be a paramedic and worked in NSW as a paramedic for over 25yrs with the nsw ambulance service
he moved to qld and guess what
qld didnt recognize his nsw qualifications
and hes had to do qld versions of the same qualifications he`s held all his working life
who does this help? no one but pen pushers!


so why are you so rigourously defending a system that is so obviously a complete shambles and a beuracratic nightmare???
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