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All The Info You Need Part 3

All The Info You Need Part 3

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Old Jan 23rd 2005, 4:37 pm
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Smile Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Hi carrianne,
I have just read this thread after doing a search under shipping. i am planning on moving to oz in may. you mention in your checklist that u can claim a rent rebate for while you are out of work, is this just if u have kids though. what if you are just a couple.
cheers

Originally Posted by Carrianne
BANKING TIPS

oke to various banks and cluey relatives in Oz to make some sense of banking plus added in what we remember from living there. Aim is to maximise interest on dosh from sale of our UK house until we buy in Melbourne plus minimise ripoff bank charges.

Our plan is below. Hopefully might save someone else a bit of brain space figuring it out.

Basics:

- Govt debits tax is taken on all transactions from accounts with chequebook facility - not just on cheques from those accounts. Daft.

- Impossible to avoid charges for using ATMs from other banks so you need to bank with a 'biggie' that has loads of machines: Top four are NAB (National Australia Bank), CBA (Commonwealth), ANZ and Westpac (Bank of Melbourne in Victoria). First two are the biggest. Check who's the biggest where you're going.

- Banks charge ridiculous amounts for current accounts unless you have lots of money with them. You have to have a $20K 'relationship' in total with the bank to avoid all charges. So it's possible to have a basic account charge free with minimal money in it (earning even more minimal interest!) if you keep $20K in something with better interest with the same bank (eg term deposit).

- You can get an instant access account with someone like ING (see their website www.ing.com.au) paying 4.75% on any balance. You need an account with another bank as a 'front' and the money can be transferred in and out same day by phone or web (none of this 3-5 days rubbish!)

We're going with Commonwealth so our strategy is:

- Use credit card for most transactions - look for one with decent bonus points/offers - direct debit full balance monthly from bank account

- CBA high interest current account (aka Cash Mgmt A/c) - keep minimal money in it, enough for day to day use, request no chequebook so no debits tax, transfer money from ING to top it up monthly/whenever

- CBA basic account (aka Streamline A/c) - with chequebook, keep $1 in it, transfer money across if cheque written (instantly done at ATM)

- CBA term deposit - eg 90 days pays 4.4% if set up on web (can only do it once in Oz), not as much interest as ING but difference more than offset by saving on bank charges with free banking

- ING a/c - rest of dosh earning 4.75% - can set this up on arrival, application form on web, need copy of CBA bank statement, takes 1 week to open

Hope this is some help to someone - my brain's fried...

RENT REBATE WHEN YOU ARRIVE

Some news that should linterest you new comers. When you arrive as a perminant resident and you are looking for work you can claim a rebate on any rent you are paying. You only get the payment while you are not working and you get it from center link along with your child benefit.
I have just filled a from out for the family we have in the Mandurah house ( they told me about it actually) and they are going to get back around $100 a week.
Hope this helps
Paula
TRAVEL INSURANCE FOR ONE WAY TRIP
Try John Wason Ltd. Click here for their web page.

They do a special insurance package for expats. It covers your travel there and your contents after you arrive. You can pick and choose which bits of the policy you want. It is even transportable so that if you move to somewhere else in the world your insurance always goes with you.

I insured with them and the quote was very reasonable and they were very flexible with which bits of the policy came into effect at certain dates during the move. More importantly I've also had to make one claim (theft from my house in Australia) and they settled in full (minus the excess) very promptly
I found two cheap policies (Which best buys) who cover one-way trips. In both cases cover ends 48 hours after arrival. Most others end at immigration control - what use is that if your stuff gets nicked in the airport carpark???

For under 40s: www.leadedge.co.uk
For over 40s: www.worldwideinsure.com
Same company for both.
Columbus (0207 375 0011) offer one way travel insurance. It stops as soon as you pass through immigration, but at least you are covered for delays, loss of baggage, etc. They were very reasonable, only £35 for two adults.
I rang a big Aussie insurer for Victoria - RACV - www.racv.com.au., phone no. 00 61 13 19 55, to compare local prices.

RACV said they were perfectly happy to cover temp accom for however long, whether with or without a lease, rent paid nightly or whatever, on same basis as usual contents. Then just a change of address when moving.

Premiums were much lower than Wasons esp with a letter from previous insurer saying no claims in last 2 years. A lot of excess options are available - up to $1000. Sample premium for $75K cover new for old with $300 XS in Box Hill, Melbourne was $363 pa. They laughed at the premiums we pay in London...

So we're going to go with the cheap best buy travel policies above: leadedge/worldinsure which expire 48 hours after arrival. Then ring up in first 2 days to get RACV cover on the spot.
Outbacker is another option for one-way trip insurance - www.outbackerinsurance.com The cover levels seemed better than other policies in the same price range.
Getting one way travel insurance is not an issue and quite esy to do it's just finding a policy with enough cover to:
a) Ensure you fully covered for a period of 3 weeks
b) Offers sufficient person effects cover so that laptops, cameras jewllery etc are covered (most limit it to £1500) which is no good for us. The Future Mrs Dinky has an engagement ring which is worth more than the total cover and I'd hate to have to replace that again!

Any people who have been through this already or who have found a solution I would appreciate suggestions.
Try giving Sweeneys a ring.....specialised insurances

0208 6562544

Also very good at Shipping insurance...hell of a lot cheaper than the ones pushed by the removal companies

TO DO LIST

Sell House
Pay off any debts
Sell car
Contact Tax Office (UK)
Get immunised for travel
Sort shipping company
Refs from banks (you will need proof that you are good payers)
Refs from employers
Stop Cable
Stop Council tax
Stop House insurance
Stop Electric, Gas, Water, Phone, Car insurance
Arrange mail to be forwarded to Brenda
Change addresses with bank
Book Flights
Close all bank accounts
Proof no claims bonus.
Convert dosh, open bank account
Get hotmail a/c
Stop car insurance and get rebate
make sure mobile is operative in oz or cancel contract
go to Link shop and buy one-tel pay as you go unlocked mobile with very low call costs £49.95 works in oz they say
Organise ALL the keys you have to the house and doors to give to the new people
Get e-mail addresses for everyone you can (cuts down on postage costs)
Cancel mobile phone contract
Cancel mobile phone contract
OPen oZ bank account (HSBC) prior
Register with as many job agenices as possible as I am trying to do a present, Hays and TMP Hudson have Global parts in london I have numbers if anyone wants them.
Be checking housing market and rentals on line
Decide what you will do first travel, or stay in a b& B
Arrange for car rental for first 2 weeks rentnewcars.com - where bar far the cheapest on all the sites I went on
If you are a tradesman, print of the licence form for your licence complete and have your qualifications ready in hand luggage to
Leaving Party
Pack you suitcase just before packers come with all the bits you will need when you go - (we are travelling first and leaving in Feb but in our cases will be our clothes,(summer) trade papers, driving licence, all important paperwork, references etc. (in hand luggage. So all winter clothes I have will be given away.
Fly west and avoid jet lag [:-) and get 32kg allowance each without having to be tied in to the Qantas migration fare. Which can be costly. Find out about what you can put in the hold for free.
cancel internet
check and have smear
Medical records

Carrianne
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Old Jan 23rd 2005, 9:27 pm
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

It is for anyone.
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Old Feb 28th 2005, 10:51 am
  #63  
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Originally Posted by Carrianne
BANKING TIPS

oke to various banks and cluey relatives in Oz to make some sense of banking plus added in what we remember from living there. Aim is to maximise interest on dosh from sale of our UK house until we buy in Melbourne plus minimise ripoff bank charges.

Our plan is below. Hopefully might save someone else a bit of brain space figuring it out.

Basics:

- Govt debits tax is taken on all transactions from accounts with chequebook facility - not just on cheques from those accounts. Daft.

- Impossible to avoid charges for using ATMs from other banks so you need to bank with a 'biggie' that has loads of machines: Top four are NAB (National Australia Bank), CBA (Commonwealth), ANZ and Westpac (Bank of Melbourne in Victoria). First two are the biggest. Check who's the biggest where you're going.

- Banks charge ridiculous amounts for current accounts unless you have lots of money with them. You have to have a $20K 'relationship' in total with the bank to avoid all charges. So it's possible to have a basic account charge free with minimal money in it (earning even more minimal interest!) if you keep $20K in something with better interest with the same bank (eg term deposit).

- You can get an instant access account with someone like ING (see their website www.ing.com.au) paying 4.75% on any balance. You need an account with another bank as a 'front' and the money can be transferred in and out same day by phone or web (none of this 3-5 days rubbish!)

We're going with Commonwealth so our strategy is:

- Use credit card for most transactions - look for one with decent bonus points/offers - direct debit full balance monthly from bank account

- CBA high interest current account (aka Cash Mgmt A/c) - keep minimal money in it, enough for day to day use, request no chequebook so no debits tax, transfer money from ING to top it up monthly/whenever

- CBA basic account (aka Streamline A/c) - with chequebook, keep $1 in it, transfer money across if cheque written (instantly done at ATM)

- CBA term deposit - eg 90 days pays 4.4% if set up on web (can only do it once in Oz), not as much interest as ING but difference more than offset by saving on bank charges with free banking

- ING a/c - rest of dosh earning 4.75% - can set this up on arrival, application form on web, need copy of CBA bank statement, takes 1 week to open

Hope this is some help to someone - my brain's fried...

RENT REBATE WHEN YOU ARRIVE

Some news that should linterest you new comers. When you arrive as a perminant resident and you are looking for work you can claim a rebate on any rent you are paying. You only get the payment while you are not working and you get it from center link along with your child benefit.
I have just filled a from out for the family we have in the Mandurah house ( they told me about it actually) and they are going to get back around $100 a week.
Hope this helps
Paula
TRAVEL INSURANCE FOR ONE WAY TRIP
Try John Wason Ltd. Click here for their web page.

They do a special insurance package for expats. It covers your travel there and your contents after you arrive. You can pick and choose which bits of the policy you want. It is even transportable so that if you move to somewhere else in the world your insurance always goes with you.

I insured with them and the quote was very reasonable and they were very flexible with which bits of the policy came into effect at certain dates during the move. More importantly I've also had to make one claim (theft from my house in Australia) and they settled in full (minus the excess) very promptly
I found two cheap policies (Which best buys) who cover one-way trips. In both cases cover ends 48 hours after arrival. Most others end at immigration control - what use is that if your stuff gets nicked in the airport carpark???

For under 40s: www.leadedge.co.uk
For over 40s: www.worldwideinsure.com
Same company for both.
Columbus (0207 375 0011) offer one way travel insurance. It stops as soon as you pass through immigration, but at least you are covered for delays, loss of baggage, etc. They were very reasonable, only £35 for two adults.
I rang a big Aussie insurer for Victoria - RACV - www.racv.com.au., phone no. 00 61 13 19 55, to compare local prices.

RACV said they were perfectly happy to cover temp accom for however long, whether with or without a lease, rent paid nightly or whatever, on same basis as usual contents. Then just a change of address when moving.

Premiums were much lower than Wasons esp with a letter from previous insurer saying no claims in last 2 years. A lot of excess options are available - up to $1000. Sample premium for $75K cover new for old with $300 XS in Box Hill, Melbourne was $363 pa. They laughed at the premiums we pay in London...

So we're going to go with the cheap best buy travel policies above: leadedge/worldinsure which expire 48 hours after arrival. Then ring up in first 2 days to get RACV cover on the spot.
Outbacker is another option for one-way trip insurance - www.outbackerinsurance.com The cover levels seemed better than other policies in the same price range.
Getting one way travel insurance is not an issue and quite esy to do it's just finding a policy with enough cover to:
a) Ensure you fully covered for a period of 3 weeks
b) Offers sufficient person effects cover so that laptops, cameras jewllery etc are covered (most limit it to £1500) which is no good for us. The Future Mrs Dinky has an engagement ring which is worth more than the total cover and I'd hate to have to replace that again!

Any people who have been through this already or who have found a solution I would appreciate suggestions.
Try giving Sweeneys a ring.....specialised insurances

0208 6562544

Also very good at Shipping insurance...hell of a lot cheaper than the ones pushed by the removal companies

TO DO LIST

Sell House
Pay off any debts
Sell car
Contact Tax Office (UK)
Get immunised for travel
Sort shipping company
Refs from banks (you will need proof that you are good payers)
Refs from employers
Stop Cable
Stop Council tax
Stop House insurance
Stop Electric, Gas, Water, Phone, Car insurance
Arrange mail to be forwarded to Brenda
Change addresses with bank
Book Flights
Close all bank accounts
Proof no claims bonus.
Convert dosh, open bank account
Get hotmail a/c
Stop car insurance and get rebate
make sure mobile is operative in oz or cancel contract
go to Link shop and buy one-tel pay as you go unlocked mobile with very low call costs £49.95 works in oz they say
Organise ALL the keys you have to the house and doors to give to the new people
Get e-mail addresses for everyone you can (cuts down on postage costs)
Cancel mobile phone contract
Cancel mobile phone contract
OPen oZ bank account (HSBC) prior
Register with as many job agenices as possible as I am trying to do a present, Hays and TMP Hudson have Global parts in london I have numbers if anyone wants them.
Be checking housing market and rentals on line
Decide what you will do first travel, or stay in a b& B
Arrange for car rental for first 2 weeks rentnewcars.com - where bar far the cheapest on all the sites I went on
If you are a tradesman, print of the licence form for your licence complete and have your qualifications ready in hand luggage to
Leaving Party
Pack you suitcase just before packers come with all the bits you will need when you go - (we are travelling first and leaving in Feb but in our cases will be our clothes,(summer) trade papers, driving licence, all important paperwork, references etc. (in hand luggage. So all winter clothes I have will be given away.
Fly west and avoid jet lag [:-) and get 32kg allowance each without having to be tied in to the Qantas migration fare. Which can be costly. Find out about what you can put in the hold for free.
cancel internet
check and have smear
Medical records

Carrianne
Totally awesome list, well done!

I have all 3 links safely noted and will definitely be referring to the three lists once we get the ball rolling on our emigration to Oz. Thank you so much.

Kari x
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Old Mar 14th 2005, 4:17 pm
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Just joined this place after reading your 'part 3' message, sent to me by a friend.
It's just about everything we need to know! Was just about to start the phone calls to sort the travel insurance out.

Where are parts 1 and 2, I would love to read those too! Please!

Many thanks

Caroline
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Old Mar 14th 2005, 5:57 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Originally Posted by Carrianne
BANKING TIPS

oke to various banks and cluey relatives in Oz to make some sense of banking plus added in what we remember from living there. Aim is to maximise interest on dosh from sale of our UK house until we buy in Melbourne plus minimise ripoff bank charges.

Our plan is below. Hopefully might save someone else a bit of brain space figuring it out.

Basics:

- Govt debits tax is taken on all transactions from accounts with chequebook facility - not just on cheques from those accounts. Daft.

- Impossible to avoid charges for using ATMs from other banks so you need to bank with a 'biggie' that has loads of machines: Top four are NAB (National Australia Bank), CBA (Commonwealth), ANZ and Westpac (Bank of Melbourne in Victoria). First two are the biggest. Check who's the biggest where you're going.

- Banks charge ridiculous amounts for current accounts unless you have lots of money with them. You have to have a $20K 'relationship' in total with the bank to avoid all charges. So it's possible to have a basic account charge free with minimal money in it (earning even more minimal interest!) if you keep $20K in something with better interest with the same bank (eg term deposit).

- You can get an instant access account with someone like ING (see their website www.ing.com.au) paying 4.75% on any balance. You need an account with another bank as a 'front' and the money can be transferred in and out same day by phone or web (none of this 3-5 days rubbish!)

We're going with Commonwealth so our strategy is:

- Use credit card for most transactions - look for one with decent bonus points/offers - direct debit full balance monthly from bank account

- CBA high interest current account (aka Cash Mgmt A/c) - keep minimal money in it, enough for day to day use, request no chequebook so no debits tax, transfer money from ING to top it up monthly/whenever

- CBA basic account (aka Streamline A/c) - with chequebook, keep $1 in it, transfer money across if cheque written (instantly done at ATM)

- CBA term deposit - eg 90 days pays 4.4% if set up on web (can only do it once in Oz), not as much interest as ING but difference more than offset by saving on bank charges with free banking

- ING a/c - rest of dosh earning 4.75% - can set this up on arrival, application form on web, need copy of CBA bank statement, takes 1 week to open

Hope this is some help to someone - my brain's fried...

RENT REBATE WHEN YOU ARRIVE

Some news that should linterest you new comers. When you arrive as a perminant resident and you are looking for work you can claim a rebate on any rent you are paying. You only get the payment while you are not working and you get it from center link along with your child benefit.
I have just filled a from out for the family we have in the Mandurah house ( they told me about it actually) and they are going to get back around $100 a week.
Hope this helps
Paula
TRAVEL INSURANCE FOR ONE WAY TRIP
Try John Wason Ltd. Click here for their web page.

They do a special insurance package for expats. It covers your travel there and your contents after you arrive. You can pick and choose which bits of the policy you want. It is even transportable so that if you move to somewhere else in the world your insurance always goes with you.

I insured with them and the quote was very reasonable and they were very flexible with which bits of the policy came into effect at certain dates during the move. More importantly I've also had to make one claim (theft from my house in Australia) and they settled in full (minus the excess) very promptly
I found two cheap policies (Which best buys) who cover one-way trips. In both cases cover ends 48 hours after arrival. Most others end at immigration control - what use is that if your stuff gets nicked in the airport carpark???

For under 40s: www.leadedge.co.uk
For over 40s: www.worldwideinsure.com
Same company for both.
Columbus (0207 375 0011) offer one way travel insurance. It stops as soon as you pass through immigration, but at least you are covered for delays, loss of baggage, etc. They were very reasonable, only £35 for two adults.
I rang a big Aussie insurer for Victoria - RACV - www.racv.com.au., phone no. 00 61 13 19 55, to compare local prices.

RACV said they were perfectly happy to cover temp accom for however long, whether with or without a lease, rent paid nightly or whatever, on same basis as usual contents. Then just a change of address when moving.

Premiums were much lower than Wasons esp with a letter from previous insurer saying no claims in last 2 years. A lot of excess options are available - up to $1000. Sample premium for $75K cover new for old with $300 XS in Box Hill, Melbourne was $363 pa. They laughed at the premiums we pay in London...

So we're going to go with the cheap best buy travel policies above: leadedge/worldinsure which expire 48 hours after arrival. Then ring up in first 2 days to get RACV cover on the spot.
Outbacker is another option for one-way trip insurance - www.outbackerinsurance.com The cover levels seemed better than other policies in the same price range.
Getting one way travel insurance is not an issue and quite esy to do it's just finding a policy with enough cover to:
a) Ensure you fully covered for a period of 3 weeks
b) Offers sufficient person effects cover so that laptops, cameras jewllery etc are covered (most limit it to £1500) which is no good for us. The Future Mrs Dinky has an engagement ring which is worth more than the total cover and I'd hate to have to replace that again!

Any people who have been through this already or who have found a solution I would appreciate suggestions.
Try giving Sweeneys a ring.....specialised insurances

0208 6562544

Also very good at Shipping insurance...hell of a lot cheaper than the ones pushed by the removal companies

TO DO LIST

Sell House
Pay off any debts
Sell car
Contact Tax Office (UK)
Get immunised for travel
Sort shipping company
Refs from banks (you will need proof that you are good payers)
Refs from employers
Stop Cable
Stop Council tax
Stop House insurance
Stop Electric, Gas, Water, Phone, Car insurance
Arrange mail to be forwarded to Brenda
Change addresses with bank
Book Flights
Close all bank accounts
Proof no claims bonus.
Convert dosh, open bank account
Get hotmail a/c
Stop car insurance and get rebate
make sure mobile is operative in oz or cancel contract
go to Link shop and buy one-tel pay as you go unlocked mobile with very low call costs £49.95 works in oz they say
Organise ALL the keys you have to the house and doors to give to the new people
Get e-mail addresses for everyone you can (cuts down on postage costs)
Cancel mobile phone contract
Cancel mobile phone contract
OPen oZ bank account (HSBC) prior
Register with as many job agenices as possible as I am trying to do a present, Hays and TMP Hudson have Global parts in london I have numbers if anyone wants them.
Be checking housing market and rentals on line
Decide what you will do first travel, or stay in a b& B
Arrange for car rental for first 2 weeks rentnewcars.com - where bar far the cheapest on all the sites I went on
If you are a tradesman, print of the licence form for your licence complete and have your qualifications ready in hand luggage to
Leaving Party
Pack you suitcase just before packers come with all the bits you will need when you go - (we are travelling first and leaving in Feb but in our cases will be our clothes,(summer) trade papers, driving licence, all important paperwork, references etc. (in hand luggage. So all winter clothes I have will be given away.
Fly west and avoid jet lag [:-) and get 32kg allowance each without having to be tied in to the Qantas migration fare. Which can be costly. Find out about what you can put in the hold for free.
cancel internet
check and have smear
Medical records

Carrianne
I've read lots of comments about bank charges and withdrawls of cash from machines - like here, can you get cash-back once you make a purchase at places like supermarkets??? If yes, is there a charge for this and is it more/less than the ATM machines??

Kari
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Old Mar 14th 2005, 5:58 pm
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Thanks for the info v useful
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Old Mar 17th 2005, 2:31 am
  #67  
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Originally Posted by TheColebecks
I've read lots of comments about bank charges and withdrawls of cash from machines - like here, can you get cash-back once you make a purchase at places like supermarkets??? If yes, is there a charge for this and is it more/less than the ATM machines??

Kari
Without fail, the assistants on the checkout will ask you if you want any "cash out" (as well as telling you to have a nice day!). Usually I pay by credit card, but if I do want cash it's easier to get it at the checkout there and then rather than go looking for an ATM. There is no charge. You just swipe your bank card in the machine and type in your PIN number. I believe you can now do this in the UK with the new "chip & pin" cards. Here they refer to it as "eftpos" (electronic funds transfer point of sale). There are plenty of ATMs around too, but if you use an ATM belonging to another bank, the fee charged is only $1 anyway.
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Old Mar 17th 2005, 2:39 am
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Originally Posted by On our way to Perth
Just joined this place after reading your 'part 3' message, sent to me by a friend.
It's just about everything we need to know! Was just about to start the phone calls to sort the travel insurance out.

Where are parts 1 and 2, I would love to read those too! Please!

Many thanks

Caroline

Hi,

Welcome to the forum, follow the links below to the other parts;

Part One
Part Two
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Old Sep 8th 2005, 9:41 pm
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

bump
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Old Sep 21st 2005, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

AND FINALLY part 3

and a big thanks to Carianne for doing it all in the first place
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Old Sep 22nd 2005, 8:35 am
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

you are all very welcome - sharing si what this site is about
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Old Sep 22nd 2005, 9:06 am
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

I am pleased someone else has gone through all the brain pain to work out a strategy for banking in Oz.

The only thing I can add is that we don't plan on sending the house money until the rate improves. I know this means we are stuck renting, but house prices in Melbourne (don't know about most other cities) look pretty static at the moment. Also, we can try out an area before commiting to buy.

I thought there was a 2 year period where you couldn't get any benefits at all. This rent rebate while not working sounds very useful. Mybe we could afford to rent the beachside villa with pool etc after all !!!
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Old Sep 22nd 2005, 9:15 am
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Originally Posted by yafm
Thanks Carriane Great help.

www.Ing.com.au should get the australian info rather than the uk site.

WHEN/IF we sell the house we can start on the list.

PLEASE PLEASE please get me a buyer who stays the distance.
Love your saying under your names. I used to have that on a large poster. I think it comes from the Native Americans and its soooo true. Thanks for reminding me of that

L-j
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Old Sep 22nd 2005, 9:19 am
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Default Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

Originally Posted by threlly
Hi carrianne,
I have just read this thread after doing a search under shipping. i am planning on moving to oz in may. you mention in your checklist that u can claim a rent rebate for while you are out of work, is this just if u have kids though. what if you are just a couple.
cheers
Hi Threlly!

I know this is a really old thread and that you were planning to go to Manly area way back in May. Did you get there? Where are you? Hubby has got a job in Brookvale so we are awaiting visa. Paniking a bit now cos everyone is sayin Sydney is too expensive. Would love to hear from you.

L-j
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Old Sep 22nd 2005, 9:22 am
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Thumbs up Re: All The Info You Need Part 3

[QUOTE=Carrianne] TIPS

thanks very much all copied into word file
so i`ve something to read when the boss is`nt watching

thanks again

steve
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