kips

Don't think I can survive another Perth summer without air con when the mercury hits 35C plus so getting quotes for a split system for the open plan kitchen, dining and living area as can't afford ducted for the whole house.

Did consider ducted evaporative system but no good for bamboo floors apparently and been strongly advised against this type of air con by friends who have lived in houses with this in the Perth metropolitan area.

One local company has quoted $3,400 for the unit and installation for a 8-9kw Mitsubishi DC inverter model (MSZ-GE80VA2). Seems an awful lot of money for just one unit and will leave a big dent in my bank account.

Can anyone who knows a bit about air con systems tell me if this quote is expensive or about right ? I am finding the whole thing very confusing so any help much appreciated.

I know places like The Good Guys, Harvey Norman and Kambos have special offers but they use sub contractors for the installation and it can be a bit hit and miss whether you get someone who is good or makes a pig's ear of the installation so sticking to air con companies.

eddie007

Good guys and retro vision have subbed work for the installation for both our units and we have had no issues.....

If you stick to the air con companies you may have to pay a bit more... But that's your shout....

Suppose the best way to figure it out is privpce up the specific unit you want then get a quote for installation and compare like for like with the retail chains

kips

Thanks eddie07. The fact you had no problems with subbed work is useful to know.

RURUS

Note that if you buy equipment from one company and have it installed by another party and something goes wrong you could have the equipment supplier blaming the installer and the installer blaming the equipment. I have known this to happen and the wrangle went on for months.

old.sparkles

That may be true, but the examples given, the installers are contracted by the shop and not the purchaser, and the purchasers agreement is solely with the shop for supply and fit.

Gjn200

Sounds an Ok price to me. That's a big unit.

Hino

Ahhhhh the joys of open plan

How did your "local company" arrive at the required size for the quoted unit ? Did they do a "Heat Load Calculation" and if they did, did they give you a copy ? Here's an introduction to heat loads and how they effect the performance of any air conditioning system...

http://www.fairair.com.au/Calculator.Size.aspx

I'm a long retired fridgie, and from what I know about Perth and it's weather, and your description of the area to be cooled I would reckon that unless you are in a block of units with few windows and concrete insulation on all sides, the size of unit they are recommending would do little more than annoy you with the constant sound of it's fan.

I don't know a darn thing about "bamboo flooring" or why a "swampie"...
"evaporative air conditioner", should adversely effect it. But for Perth's dry climate a "swampie" would certainly be the first choice for me. Cheap to install, low tech, easy to maintain and repair and very low running costs.

Ask the guys who are recommending this "inverter" system, if they have any member of staff on site who can repair the complicated electronics when it goes wrong ?

Also with a refrigerated air conditioning system you will need to keep widows and doors closed in order for the unit to cool as required, and possibly keep the window blinds drawn as well on 'hot' days, whereas with a "swampie" keeping the doors and windows open actually increases the units efficiency as this lowers the inside relative humidity and increases the evaporation, therefore increasing the "evaporation" effect of the unit.

My advice would be to call three Evaporative cooling installers in your area, get them to quote on putting in ducted evaporative A/C, and also discuss with them any possible problems with your bamboo floors. While they are quoting for the install, get them to quote for an annual inspection/clean. Compare the quotes, advice and information the different companies give you and go from there.

As for buying refrigerated systems from a major supplier.....Where do I start ? Who is going to do the Heat Load calculation and size the unit ? Another poster has said that the company selling the unit will recommend a fitter and you will have a "supply and fit" contract with the unit supplier.

I have never, ever known this to be the case. I know that some companies will recommend a company to fit the unit, but that is where the deal between purchaser, fitter and supply company ends !

I used to be a "recommended" installer, and one of the reasons that I was so successful is that the first thing I did before taking on the job was to inspect the premises where the unit was to be installed to make sure it was the right size for the job. If I wasn't happy with the size of the unit, I'd advise the client the correct size to install and if they didn't agree to change the unit, then I would politely decline the job.

There are only two scenarios in the buying 'cheap' refrigerated unit from 'Big Boys' and hiring a 'recommended' installer to 'shoe' the unit in. It either works or it doe's not work...agreed ?

If it works fine, if it does not work what is your next step...?

Complain to Daikin, or whoever made the unit ? They will want to know the reason for return... What are you going to tell them ? that the house isn't cold enough ? If the unit has been wrongly sized then you are going to get nowhere with the unit manufacturer.

Complain to the installer perhaps ? He's going to tell you that you were the one who picked the size of the unit and that there was nothing wrong with the install as the unit is running perfectly.

Complain to "Big Boys"...good luck with that. The unit isn't faulty, and you picked the size of the unit, so no problem with the equipment they sold. If you think there is a problem with the installation, see the installer, your only contract is with the guy with the screwdriver. B.B.'s didn't install anything...

Welcome to a possible world of pain.

If I can be of any help I would be more than willing to give you advice and support, but please do plenty of research.

I've lived in dry areas and I've always found "swampies" the way to go most of the time. There will always be the odd occasion when the rain comes and the humidity goes through the roof making the "swampie" useless, but most of the time in dry areas they will work real well and cheap as chips too.

It's the climate mate

Hino

kips

Thanks for your detailed response. The person who put in the bamboo flooring told us evap was not good for this type of flooring because of the moisture created by the evap air con, especially on vey hot days.

No idea if this is the case as never lived in a house with evap and wooden floors. Before we moved into this new build we rented a new house with ducted refrigerated reverse cycle air con and it was a godsend on the really hot days. Had the temp on 25C or even 26C to cut down on running costs and that helped.

But you make a good point about cost of annual maintenance which I hadn't considered. And I did ask the guy from air con company about the noise from the unit and he said it was not a major problem but then I suppose he would say that.

I did get a quote for ducted evap some months and was quoted about $5,000 which is very reasonable and the option my husband favours. And I spoke to a neighbour with ducted evap and she says the house feels comfortable on hot days but her home has tiled floors.

Hino

Hi Kips,


I have to say that $5,000 sounds like a real cheap solution and the one I would go for if I lived in Perth.

As for the "moisture created by the evap air con" I have to say that if evaporative air con is used correctly, then "the moisture caused" is a load of crap. Of course you did get this 'information' from a floor man not an A/C man

The way you use refrigerated A/C is almost the complete opposite to the way that you use refrigerated A/C.

With refrigerated A/C you keep the doors and windows closed, try to reduce the heat load and for best efficiency in a building that is constantly occupied, leave it running 24 hours a day during warm/hot periods. Using the timer/thermostat to reduce the demand temp and running costs.

With evaporative A/C the best way to use it is with all the doors and windows wide open. If you are away from the house during the day, then let it heat up without cooling during the day, and when you get home, then open up the doors and windows and let the evaporative rip...you'll love it

Refrigerated A/C dries the air....do you really need 'drier air' when the relative humidity is in single digits ???

I hope that you make the right decision, feel free to 'PM' me for further advice

astera

How much would the unit cost on its own? Do you have a breakdown that includes the "hardware" price as well as the installation costs?

spouse of scouse

Hi Kips, another fan of ducted evaporative here. As mentioned, there'll be a few days a year of high humidity when the air con struggles, but it's been brilliant most of the time for us. Our place is tiled through the main living areas and wood in the bedrooms. I've found that we only need the doors and windows open about 6 inches.

kips

The unit is $2,100 and the rest is for installation.

jackieh23

Have just had evap installed in our rental here in Perth. Have had evap previously for 28 years in Perth and then the 2 years in Adelaide. There are many who hate evap because it is basically useless on humid days but the number of hot, dry days in Perth are far more than the humid ones. You can also just turn the fan on with an evap and leave the cool off. Great when you are grilling lamb chops to remove the smoke :-) and stops the smoke alarm much quicker than waving a tea towel under it.
Go with the evap. Cheaper to run and quick and easy to install. Low maintenance costs too.

Siren & Brian

Expensive then

nicolac34

We've just had the reverse-cycle ducted air con installed as we were told this was the best thing for Perth. We've been to stay with friends who have the evap and I just thought the place felt damp all the time - no idea if that's because they were using it wrong or that's how it was supposed to be!

Anyway, we were told ducted r/c air con would cost a fortune both to install and to run. Well, we didn't think so, cost us $7,790 to install and we could spread this payment interest free over 4 months. Obviously depends on the size of your house, but for this price we have heating and cooling and the house is so much more comfortable now.

We did consider splits in each room, but were put off by the expense (nearly the same cost) and also having big ugly boxes both inside and outside the house - the noise of them also put us off.

So far we've only had it on the heat function (and boy is it nice and snug now) and it's costing us around 30c an hour to run.