Originally Posted by phoenixinoz

Hi jonjon

I'm sorry to hear your appeal was unsuccessful. No doubt you will be feeling pretty crap at the moment, but take a few breaths and start planning a comeback...if it is possible

Have we spoken before? I'm not sure if we have? Anyways, I was wondering if you are able to now apply via Vattessa once AIM have rejected your skills? [just a thought]

The other thing is....AIM are known for being pedantic and a pain in the arse. It is not unusual for them to fail candidates. AIM like to see strategic involvement hence their "waffle". Have you got any documented company info to demonstrate your involvement at this level...for instance minuted HR meetings, preferably at pan international level....or even documented strategic changes with your clear HR direction / involvement? And could you appeal if so anyway?

I don't know what else to suggest other than you need to plan what next and if you still want to go to Aus then work out a way to do it. Is it possible to apply to New Zealand and the Aus after a few years there?

Anyways, just a few thoughts. I am really sorry to hear your news Jon...and good luck moving forward. Don't give up on your dream, whatever that may be

Originally Posted by jonjon

It is just very annoying to provide AIM with the information they have requested, only for them to make an assumption with no basis or clarification.

Jon

Originally Posted by phoenixinoz

Hi Jon

Re above: Yep, that's typical AIM I'm afraid

The great news is you are still going to get here.....so "stuff em"....and good onya

All the best Jon...and if you or your better half need any info on the above or Aus...send me a PM

Originally Posted by jonjon

many thanks

jon

Originally Posted by jonjon

Sorry I have posted this on both forums as I think people need to be aware and careful when using the AIM

As some of you are aware I have been trying to get my skills assessed as a HR manager via the Australian Institute of Management (AIM)

I have today received the outcome for my appeal with is negative.

The basis for there rejections are as follows.

1. despite having 2 HR Managers reporting to me, a HR officer and HR administrator I was rejected on the basis of “staff and these would not be considered managers in terms of the AIM guidelines. The AIM criteria require a senior manager to have direct reports and responsibility/accountability for managerial level staff.”
2. that whilst a sat as a member of the senior management team with the directors and company owners to develop the strategic direction of the organisation that “we do not believe your influence beyond the human resources arena would have been overly significant”
3. I have worked in 4 originations within the last 8 years at a senior level in each and been responsible for developing and implementing the formal HR strategies for these organisations to help the business grow and develop and support the operational

This is my favourite of them all

4. on the basis that I am apply to the assessing body for Human Resource Management as deemed by the Department of immigration that “Your roles have been narrowly focused on human resources and whilst acknowledging the importance of this area, the AIM criteria emphasise cross functional responsibility across the full range of managerial activities.”


The annoying thing is with the whole of this process is that they have not clarified or tried to clarify any of the concerns they have or my operating levels within my previous positions despite being given contact details of each. Other than my most present employer whole they have already deemed as being “would be insufficient by itself to gain a positive assessment even if it was considered to be at the relevant level”.

Come on having an assessing organisations for a specialist skills base and then saying they fail because they do not have enough experience in other fields is a bit mush it like saying a management account cannot qualify because they are to focused on accounting and do not have any experience of business areas such as HR.

Don’t get me wrong if I fail to meet the required criteria I have no problem with this as long as it is just and fair to the profession being assessed.

Your have an accredited governing body for HR in Australia AHRI who understand the professional requirements so why do they use an organisational that is completed lack of understand of HR and the role it plays within a business.

Do Not waste your money go with Vetassess if you get enough points this way

Sorry rant over with what a waste of 4 months and £150.00

Originally Posted by Sun n Surf

Jon,

I can totally understand your rant. I am an HR Manager with MCIPD membership and looked into going down that route but the things they were asking for just seemed impossible. I deal with Managers and Directors across the EAME region but I don't have any reporting to me so as far as I was concerened judging by the information they wanted, that wouldn't be enough (esp as they not only wanted HR Managers to report to you, but also Managers from other departments which I can't see would be a very common thing and even if someone was high enough to have all this experience, they would probably lose too many points for being too old). Luckily for us, my husband is a Carpenter and they are on the MODL list so we are going down that way.

I wish you all the luck in going down the Vetassess route. The only positive thing is that it looks as though once you get in, you won't be short of work as I have seen loads of HR jobs on the web site (esp round Brisbane which is where we are thinking of).

Good Luck Sun

Originally Posted by jonjon

Hi sun which web sites are your looking at for jobs,

when are you thinking og going,

we are looking at wellington point bay side Brisbane. Also how are you doing with oz employment law, i have some links if you need any

regards

jon

Originally Posted by jonjon

Sorry I have posted this on both forums as I think people need to be aware and careful when using the AIM

As some of you are aware I have been trying to get my skills assessed as a HR manager via the Australian Institute of Management (AIM)

I have today received the outcome for my appeal with is negative.

The basis for there rejections are as follows.

1. despite having 2 HR Managers reporting to me, a HR officer and HR administrator I was rejected on the basis of “staff and these would not be considered managers in terms of the AIM guidelines. The AIM criteria require a senior manager to have direct reports and responsibility/accountability for managerial level staff.”
2. that whilst a sat as a member of the senior management team with the directors and company owners to develop the strategic direction of the organisation that “we do not believe your influence beyond the human resources arena would have been overly significant”
3. I have worked in 4 originations within the last 8 years at a senior level in each and been responsible for developing and implementing the formal HR strategies for these organisations to help the business grow and develop and support the operational

This is my favourite of them all

4. on the basis that I am apply to the assessing body for Human Resource Management as deemed by the Department of immigration that “Your roles have been narrowly focused on human resources and whilst acknowledging the importance of this area, the AIM criteria emphasise cross functional responsibility across the full range of managerial activities.”


The annoying thing is with the whole of this process is that they have not clarified or tried to clarify any of the concerns they have or my operating levels within my previous positions despite being given contact details of each. Other than my most present employer whole they have already deemed as being “would be insufficient by itself to gain a positive assessment even if it was considered to be at the relevant level”.

Come on having an assessing organisations for a specialist skills base and then saying they fail because they do not have enough experience in other fields is a bit mush it like saying a management account cannot qualify because they are to focused on accounting and do not have any experience of business areas such as HR.

Don’t get me wrong if I fail to meet the required criteria I have no problem with this as long as it is just and fair to the profession being assessed.

Your have an accredited governing body for HR in Australia AHRI who understand the professional requirements so why do they use an organisational that is completed lack of understand of HR and the role it plays within a business.

Do Not waste your money go with Vetassess if you get enough points this way

Sorry rant over with what a waste of 4 months and £150.00

Originally Posted by Jonahs_mummy

Oh mate! Thats bad luck - if you want to chat PM me hunny!

Originally Posted by jonjon

Sorry I have posted this on both forums as I think people need to be aware and careful when using the AIM

As some of you are aware I have been trying to get my skills assessed as a HR manager via the Australian Institute of Management (AIM)

I have today received the outcome for my appeal with is negative.

The basis for there rejections are as follows.

1. despite having 2 HR Managers reporting to me, a HR officer and HR administrator I was rejected on the basis of “staff and these would not be considered managers in terms of the AIM guidelines. The AIM criteria require a senior manager to have direct reports and responsibility/accountability for managerial level staff.”
2. that whilst a sat as a member of the senior management team with the directors and company owners to develop the strategic direction of the organisation that “we do not believe your influence beyond the human resources arena would have been overly significant”
3. I have worked in 4 originations within the last 8 years at a senior level in each and been responsible for developing and implementing the formal HR strategies for these organisations to help the business grow and develop and support the operational

This is my favourite of them all

4. on the basis that I am apply to the assessing body for Human Resource Management as deemed by the Department of immigration that “Your roles have been narrowly focused on human resources and whilst acknowledging the importance of this area, the AIM criteria emphasise cross functional responsibility across the full range of managerial activities.”


The annoying thing is with the whole of this process is that they have not clarified or tried to clarify any of the concerns they have or my operating levels within my previous positions despite being given contact details of each. Other than my most present employer whole they have already deemed as being “would be insufficient by itself to gain a positive assessment even if it was considered to be at the relevant level”.

Come on having an assessing organisations for a specialist skills base and then saying they fail because they do not have enough experience in other fields is a bit mush it like saying a management account cannot qualify because they are to focused on accounting and do not have any experience of business areas such as HR.

Don’t get me wrong if I fail to meet the required criteria I have no problem with this as long as it is just and fair to the profession being assessed.

Your have an accredited governing body for HR in Australia AHRI who understand the professional requirements so why do they use an organisational that is completed lack of understand of HR and the role it plays within a business.

Do Not waste your money go with Vetassess if you get enough points this way

Sorry rant over with what a waste of 4 months and £150.00

Originally Posted by BlueToffee

Jon

sounds like a complete pile of poo to me.

I dont know if this is of any use but we used an agent as I am a senior manager but when we looked down that route it seemed a pretty hard thing to clarify exactly what they want, and from your expereince it seems to be true.

The agents we used, were really good and basically gave us full confidence that they would get us through, the only downside is that is costs a lot more than doing it yourself. However, I would suspect as a senior manager this would be worth the expense.

Just a thought

Blue Toffee

Originally Posted by jonjon

Sorry I have posted this on both forums as I think people need to be aware and careful when using the AIM

As some of you are aware I have been trying to get my skills assessed as a HR manager via the Australian Institute of Management (AIM)

I have today received the outcome for my appeal with is negative.

The basis for there rejections are as follows.

1. despite having 2 HR Managers reporting to me, a HR officer and HR administrator I was rejected on the basis of “staff and these would not be considered managers in terms of the AIM guidelines. The AIM criteria require a senior manager to have direct reports and responsibility/accountability for managerial level staff.”
2. that whilst a sat as a member of the senior management team with the directors and company owners to develop the strategic direction of the organisation that “we do not believe your influence beyond the human resources arena would have been overly significant”
3. I have worked in 4 originations within the last 8 years at a senior level in each and been responsible for developing and implementing the formal HR strategies for these organisations to help the business grow and develop and support the operational

This is my favourite of them all

4. on the basis that I am apply to the assessing body for Human Resource Management as deemed by the Department of immigration that “Your roles have been narrowly focused on human resources and whilst acknowledging the importance of this area, the AIM criteria emphasise cross functional responsibility across the full range of managerial activities.”


The annoying thing is with the whole of this process is that they have not clarified or tried to clarify any of the concerns they have or my operating levels within my previous positions despite being given contact details of each. Other than my most present employer whole they have already deemed as being “would be insufficient by itself to gain a positive assessment even if it was considered to be at the relevant level”.

Come on having an assessing organisations for a specialist skills base and then saying they fail because they do not have enough experience in other fields is a bit mush it like saying a management account cannot qualify because they are to focused on accounting and do not have any experience of business areas such as HR.

Don’t get me wrong if I fail to meet the required criteria I have no problem with this as long as it is just and fair to the profession being assessed.

Your have an accredited governing body for HR in Australia AHRI who understand the professional requirements so why do they use an organisational that is completed lack of understand of HR and the role it plays within a business.

Do Not waste your money go with Vetassess if you get enough points this way

Sorry rant over with what a waste of 4 months and £150.00

Originally Posted by Sun n Surf

Jon,

I can totally understand your rant. I am an HR Manager with MCIPD membership and looked into going down that route but the things they were asking for just seemed impossible. I deal with Managers and Directors across the EAME region but I don't have any reporting to me so as far as I was concerened judging by the information they wanted, that wouldn't be enough (esp as they not only wanted HR Managers to report to you, but also Managers from other departments which I can't see would be a very common thing and even if someone was high enough to have all this experience, they would probably lose too many points for being too old). Luckily for us, my husband is a Carpenter and they are on the MODL list so we are going down that way.

I wish you all the luck in going down the Vetassess route. The only positive thing is that it looks as though once you get in, you won't be short of work as I have seen loads of HR jobs on the web site (esp round Brisbane which is where we are thinking of).

Good Luck Sun