Advice on Shipping Companies
May 4th 2009, 7:30 am
#46
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Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
Yes in essence you are right .... for every good report you will receive a bad report. The problem is that (especially with less than container loads) so many people are involved. The consolidator may co load with another consolidator, then they both might use a groupage operator, and in turn that operator uses a shipping line.
In general Customs will only open boxes in which they have a special interest, or alternatively on a random 1 in 40 (for instance) basis.
The way to protect your goods is to supervise the packing. Ensure that packing lists per box are completed. Ensure that all the cartons are sealed with security tape. On delivery, every package that has been unsealed or tampered with has to be checked against the packing lists. If they have to wait then they have to wait. Tough. Then if you find good missing in that box you sign the delivery note to that effect. In that way you are covered and your insurance has proof that goods are missing. DONT let them make you sign "unchecked" or give them a clean signature, or sign "boxes opened & re-sealed.
Having been party to a number of insurance claims, it all boils down to the receivers signature. If its clear and precisely claused then no one can complain, and all you have to insure then is that you have the correct insurance cover.
In general Customs will only open boxes in which they have a special interest, or alternatively on a random 1 in 40 (for instance) basis.
The way to protect your goods is to supervise the packing. Ensure that packing lists per box are completed. Ensure that all the cartons are sealed with security tape. On delivery, every package that has been unsealed or tampered with has to be checked against the packing lists. If they have to wait then they have to wait. Tough. Then if you find good missing in that box you sign the delivery note to that effect. In that way you are covered and your insurance has proof that goods are missing. DONT let them make you sign "unchecked" or give them a clean signature, or sign "boxes opened & re-sealed.
Having been party to a number of insurance claims, it all boils down to the receivers signature. If its clear and precisely claused then no one can complain, and all you have to insure then is that you have the correct insurance cover.
May 4th 2009, 8:00 am
#47
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Posts: 116
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
May 4th 2009, 11:51 am
#48
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Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
May 4th 2009, 1:47 pm
#49
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 116
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
Two camera 4 gig Compactflash memory cards were taken from the camera's.
Where they went missing is a guess. BUT the number of boxes on the inventory was the same at both ends. The missing items were not in one box. They were in different rooms and therefore - unless they did a re-pack on the back of the van...would have been in different boxes and packed on different days. Downstairs stuff went first... upstairs last.
We also had at least 2 or 3 boxes of christmas dec and old video's which they were told were not going and being left or put in the wheelie bin. they ended up in Aus... which if numbers were checked or cubic volumn - would have replaced the equal number of missing boxes!
they even admit that in one instance..one guy packed and later... the other wrote in the contents having not seen them!
One item went missing which was bigger than the box they had on record as being the box it was "listed".
Complicated aint it!
Last edited by mi5agent; May 4th 2009 at 1:51 pm.
May 4th 2009, 4:24 pm
#50
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Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
Sure is
Thats why I say the boxes should have been packed at your home and security sealed. Therefore if they turned up in aus with the same security seals it should have been fine. If the seals were broken then thats a different thing
Thats why I say the boxes should have been packed at your home and security sealed. Therefore if they turned up in aus with the same security seals it should have been fine. If the seals were broken then thats a different thing
May 4th 2009, 8:05 pm
#51
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Posts: 5,353
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
May 4th 2009, 10:10 pm
#52
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Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
Some box.s will be opened by AQIS in Australia for inspection so seals will be broken, with air freight we put a red decal across the tape lines, when the shipment is delivered to the warehouse, the store man inspects the box,s and covers the red decal with a green one to show no tampering in transit..........mm
May 4th 2009, 11:34 pm
#53
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 116
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
Seals and boxes are fine.... the PRESUMPTION is that the the missing items were packed in a sealed box and transported to Aus.
IF the packers cherry pick items which are placed in a box that they can identify...and either remove and re-seal - or if its a none recorded box that they simpply drop off at home on the wau y into the depot - then no amount of seals and boxes, contents listed on inventories or Bills of lading etc,.
The actual issue frommy perspective is that items went missing after being removed from our home bt John Mason packers and in whatever mode of boxing/packing/up the back of a coat or down a trouser leg beamed over by Scotty - we never saw them again.
The other part of "the scam" is the main item lost was identified as being in a certain box number and its type and size given. In real terms the actaul box used was 36" deep x 25 x 25 - the item was 36"..but in its origianl box which need to be bigger, even if the item was loaded in at a "leaning" angle to maximize corner to corner space...I still doubt it would have actually fitted.
Remember in my post I mentioned one guy packing a items ..and when sealed, the other guy is alledged to have written in teh description. "Sorry, it was a mistake" BUT I am to be held as signing for the boxes as listed on the inventory which from this admission, as lost its credability.
If packers collude to make false entries on shipping inventories - its virtually impossible to check. Th ewhole contents of a box, if more than 2 or 3 items have no space on the the document line. not once did they "overflow" or "wrap" onto the line below. John Mason offiice staff have admitted that the contents are not listed 100%
Insurances and conditions are fine.... but not one caters for " Items Cherry picked by packers et al or other persons with access to a loaded removal van".
I am open to suggestions from forum members.
Items in our home when packers arrive to remove goods for shipping.
Packers leave in their loaded van -- all items remaining is furniture and fittings as agreed in the house sale contract. On delivery in Aus, 142 boxes recieved, only sealed tape broken is the boxes identified by Sydney Aquis - th e missing items do not show as being in those boxes. So where did teh missing stuff go?
AND- if 2 camera memory cards are taken from the camera's which arrive in a box with extra packing as I requested and seal intact. It seeems to point to only one explanation for their absense.
You state you have been involved in shipping for many years, am I the very person to have stuff beamed out of the boxes by martians?
Last edited by mi5agent; May 4th 2009 at 11:37 pm.
May 5th 2009, 12:15 pm
#54
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Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
Errrr ...... I'm only trying to be helpful for people in the future .... to late for you I'm afraid.
Yes, I owned my own freight company and was in the business for 22 years, and before that a Customs Officer. Im a Fellow of the Institute of Freight Forwarders, and dealt with any insurance claims that our company received which included a number of personal effects shipments.
So from fairly lengthy experience I know that what I'm saying is the correct method of dealing with these matters which leads to least problems. So if you are saying that the packers came into your home and, presumably unsupervised, helped themselves to items out of your house, and then carried the items out of the house infront of you, that is impossible to prove.
If you say that the sealed boxes were opened after they left your home and then re sealed, then it is possible to tell that this has been done when security tape is used, as it tears boxes.
No .......... I agree, if packersw collude there is little you can do about that other than periodically supervise them as they are packing (or search them as they leave the house
) or individually sign over the sealed tape on each box. If you have sealed the cartons in your home, and signed for the cartons sealed at your new home then it is unlikely an insurance claim will take your claim seriously I'm afraid, but who knows.
I have to say though, that if the packers staff are summararily stealing stuff from people shipments then it would become apparant very quickly indeed, due to similar complaints.
Sorry you've had such a trying time with it all, I hope you manage to sort something out
Yes, I owned my own freight company and was in the business for 22 years, and before that a Customs Officer. Im a Fellow of the Institute of Freight Forwarders, and dealt with any insurance claims that our company received which included a number of personal effects shipments.
So from fairly lengthy experience I know that what I'm saying is the correct method of dealing with these matters which leads to least problems. So if you are saying that the packers came into your home and, presumably unsupervised, helped themselves to items out of your house, and then carried the items out of the house infront of you, that is impossible to prove.
If you say that the sealed boxes were opened after they left your home and then re sealed, then it is possible to tell that this has been done when security tape is used, as it tears boxes.
No .......... I agree, if packersw collude there is little you can do about that other than periodically supervise them as they are packing (or search them as they leave the house
) or individually sign over the sealed tape on each box. If you have sealed the cartons in your home, and signed for the cartons sealed at your new home then it is unlikely an insurance claim will take your claim seriously I'm afraid, but who knows.I have to say though, that if the packers staff are summararily stealing stuff from people shipments then it would become apparant very quickly indeed, due to similar complaints.
Sorry you've had such a trying time with it all, I hope you manage to sort something out
May 5th 2009, 11:19 pm
#55
finally in melbourne
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 180
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
We went with pickfords and our stuff arrived about 4 weeks ago. Several items broke in transition and a bike pump and lock went missing. Overall an ok experience with pickfords, though not sure i would use them again.
Currently waiting for a claim to go through on the insurance and so far i rate the insurace company's communication as very poor!! I have emailed them several times and with the help of pickfords who got onto them too, they failed to communicate. Only the other day did they finally make communication.
I think all the shipping companies are all about the same, just some will have better experiences and some worse. It luck of the draw.
Good luck with your choice in shipping company.
Currently waiting for a claim to go through on the insurance and so far i rate the insurace company's communication as very poor!! I have emailed them several times and with the help of pickfords who got onto them too, they failed to communicate. Only the other day did they finally make communication.
I think all the shipping companies are all about the same, just some will have better experiences and some worse. It luck of the draw.
Good luck with your choice in shipping company.
Last edited by di90; May 6th 2009 at 12:55 am.
May 6th 2009, 12:18 am
#56
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Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Camberwell, Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 781
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
I cut the quote to save space.
I dont want to bang on about our aggravation with the shippers we used.
Having used this - since 2003 and another forum - since it was born but I cannot name coz it will be deleted - but it centres in brits not in UK!
from teh two, we saw posts about shippers and I recall there was even a poll to show who had problems with which shippers.
In real terms, every shipper got complaints about damages or thefts. I use "thefts" as defined by, it was packed at our home and did not arrive at destination" the bit in between is a bigger mystery than the desination port of the Marie Celeste.
And - all shippers had teh "we used them and they were great, even brewed up and bought is chocs to go away with " ( semi joke)
The ones who showed the worst, were local companies who took teh contract and farmed it out- for the shipping - but in most cases sent their own staff to pack it up. Anybody having a different appraoch may contadict me at will.
So, with all this knowledge and experience from those wot have dun it, we thopught it woul dbe a simple issue for us.
First get the three seemingly, most used and who handle the whole contract in-house.
We chose Crown, went through the routine and were just waiting for the house to sell. That was back in 2006/07. Just has the house prices stumbled.
In August 2008, teh visa on the was on teh final glidepath, the house had a buyer. time to boohk teh shippers, phoned Crown...ah, old quote, need to re-assess. OK so we will do it again and get in other quotes, Dorree Bonner and John Mason.
We got quotes from all three in best price order, JM, Crown, DB.
Checked the forums for info...JM had good reports, and having lost a truck load on the house and the exchange rate looking terminal - we fell into "save some cash " mode and chose John Mason.
I am sure you will have have seen the results in my posts, all of what was taken from our home..did not arrive at destination.
The situation is that you at least two strangers walk into you home and pack it away. According to the inventory, we had 142 boxes taking 595cu ft of container space. $2625 plus 315 to clean thentainer! plus Insurance £634.10 plus £63.41 for Derangement cover Total £3337.51 PLUS AUD$249 for added milage delivery.
We had delivered 142 boxes, all still sealed except a few which had been identified on the inventory as inspected by Customs. Re-sealed using brown vinyl tape.
So where did our missing items end up?
That question is yet to be answered, but John mason dont give a hoot, "Start an insurance claim" was theie responce after suggesting teh items may be with the customs people...but made no effort to ask!
So with all thehelp in theworld, with other experience to guide our path and using the TOP shippers - according to two of theost popular and frequented forums - and we end up ion te very situation we did our best to avoid.
I have little confidence about our insurance claim and expect them to respond with, But you sihned out 142 boxes and recieved 142 boxes and teh only one not sealed by JM - were those opened by customs, so we do not understand how you say items are missing. or words to that effect.
After it leaves you home - if its not sealed in a container, which seemed to be the only tamper free option, until has pointed out to me, you realize that the aussie shippers unpack every for customs and eithe rload it back or onto their van. So still a risk of pilferage.
What can you do? Everything we did amd more- accidental damage is in teh lap of the gods -IF you ensure that everything is packed well, in truth I cannot fault the amount of packing used by JM, although, the other side of that is most of the boxes were only about half full of gear and teh rest packing paper. We trusted the packers and did not stand over them. So who knows what went into the boxes or hown many boxes were actauly packed and even less idea how many went on the van to be opned and looted on-route.
There you go, the conclusion is that for every post who reports, XXX are great no problems, there is another like me who reports - naw they are part time looters and make Fagin look like a novice.
Make you choice, pay your money and start worrying!!!
PS... where you see teh its THE...but fingers and brain aint on good terms
I dont want to bang on about our aggravation with the shippers we used.
Having used this - since 2003 and another forum - since it was born but I cannot name coz it will be deleted - but it centres in brits not in UK!
from teh two, we saw posts about shippers and I recall there was even a poll to show who had problems with which shippers.
In real terms, every shipper got complaints about damages or thefts. I use "thefts" as defined by, it was packed at our home and did not arrive at destination" the bit in between is a bigger mystery than the desination port of the Marie Celeste.
And - all shippers had teh "we used them and they were great, even brewed up and bought is chocs to go away with " ( semi joke)
The ones who showed the worst, were local companies who took teh contract and farmed it out- for the shipping - but in most cases sent their own staff to pack it up. Anybody having a different appraoch may contadict me at will.
So, with all this knowledge and experience from those wot have dun it, we thopught it woul dbe a simple issue for us.
First get the three seemingly, most used and who handle the whole contract in-house.
We chose Crown, went through the routine and were just waiting for the house to sell. That was back in 2006/07. Just has the house prices stumbled.
In August 2008, teh visa on the was on teh final glidepath, the house had a buyer. time to boohk teh shippers, phoned Crown...ah, old quote, need to re-assess. OK so we will do it again and get in other quotes, Dorree Bonner and John Mason.
We got quotes from all three in best price order, JM, Crown, DB.
Checked the forums for info...JM had good reports, and having lost a truck load on the house and the exchange rate looking terminal - we fell into "save some cash " mode and chose John Mason.
I am sure you will have have seen the results in my posts, all of what was taken from our home..did not arrive at destination.
The situation is that you at least two strangers walk into you home and pack it away. According to the inventory, we had 142 boxes taking 595cu ft of container space. $2625 plus 315 to clean thentainer! plus Insurance £634.10 plus £63.41 for Derangement cover Total £3337.51 PLUS AUD$249 for added milage delivery.
We had delivered 142 boxes, all still sealed except a few which had been identified on the inventory as inspected by Customs. Re-sealed using brown vinyl tape.
So where did our missing items end up?
That question is yet to be answered, but John mason dont give a hoot, "Start an insurance claim" was theie responce after suggesting teh items may be with the customs people...but made no effort to ask!
So with all thehelp in theworld, with other experience to guide our path and using the TOP shippers - according to two of theost popular and frequented forums - and we end up ion te very situation we did our best to avoid.
I have little confidence about our insurance claim and expect them to respond with, But you sihned out 142 boxes and recieved 142 boxes and teh only one not sealed by JM - were those opened by customs, so we do not understand how you say items are missing. or words to that effect.
After it leaves you home - if its not sealed in a container, which seemed to be the only tamper free option, until has pointed out to me, you realize that the aussie shippers unpack every for customs and eithe rload it back or onto their van. So still a risk of pilferage.
What can you do? Everything we did amd more- accidental damage is in teh lap of the gods -IF you ensure that everything is packed well, in truth I cannot fault the amount of packing used by JM, although, the other side of that is most of the boxes were only about half full of gear and teh rest packing paper. We trusted the packers and did not stand over them. So who knows what went into the boxes or hown many boxes were actauly packed and even less idea how many went on the van to be opned and looted on-route.
There you go, the conclusion is that for every post who reports, XXX are great no problems, there is another like me who reports - naw they are part time looters and make Fagin look like a novice.
Make you choice, pay your money and start worrying!!!
PS... where you see teh its THE...but fingers and brain aint on good terms
Insurance claim still going through but I asked for and received a part payment which was good. Despite it being slow the insurance have paid up to date and seem to be treating it well and professionally. Once everything is resolved I'll send a letter to the original shippers advising of this. I doubt it will do much but perhaps they can educate their packers to do a better job.
Then again, some things were damaged by knives being used to open the boxes - cables sliced through etc.
It's all very basic stuff but seems like you take your chances with whoever packs at one end and unpacks at the other - and every shipper has good and bad people...
May 6th 2009, 5:05 am
#57
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Phillip Island, VIC
Posts: 259
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
I know this is soooo stressful making a decision, i got about 7 quotes based in Bedfordshire, went with white & co and asked if they would match the lowest quote i had and they did. Excellent service nothing broken, got here in the time they stated, i was stressing over breakables etc but all my china arrived with no problem, i got seperate insurance with a company i found on here very cheap although can't remember the name. Stuff was checked, tools, garden equip, bikes, hoover, Xmas decs, shoes we jet washed it all and washed with jeyes fluid it got through no probs, a major hassle all the cleaning but worth it, good luck
May 6th 2009, 6:03 am
#58
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 116
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
Errrr ...... I'm only trying to be helpful for people in the future .... to late for you I'm afraid.
Yes, I owned my own freight company and was in the business for 22 years, and before that a Customs Officer. Im a Fellow of the Institute of Freight Forwarders, and dealt with any insurance claims that our company received which included a number of personal effects shipments.
So from fairly lengthy experience I know that what I'm saying is the correct method of dealing with these matters which leads to least problems. So if you are saying that the packers came into your home and, presumably unsupervised, helped themselves to items out of your house, and then carried the items out of the house infront of you, that is impossible to prove.
If you say that the sealed boxes were opened after they left your home and then re sealed, then it is possible to tell that this has been done when security tape is used, as it tears boxes.
No .......... I agree, if packersw collude there is little you can do about that other than periodically supervise them as they are packing (or search them as they leave the house) or individually sign over the sealed tape on each box. If you have sealed the cartons in your home, and signed for the cartons sealed at your new home then it is unlikely an insurance claim will take your claim seriously I'm afraid, but who knows.
I have to say though, that if the packers staff are summararily stealing stuff from people shipments then it would become apparant very quickly indeed, due to similar complaints.
Sorry you've had such a trying time with it all, I hope you manage to sort something out
Yes, I owned my own freight company and was in the business for 22 years, and before that a Customs Officer. Im a Fellow of the Institute of Freight Forwarders, and dealt with any insurance claims that our company received which included a number of personal effects shipments.
So from fairly lengthy experience I know that what I'm saying is the correct method of dealing with these matters which leads to least problems. So if you are saying that the packers came into your home and, presumably unsupervised, helped themselves to items out of your house, and then carried the items out of the house infront of you, that is impossible to prove.
If you say that the sealed boxes were opened after they left your home and then re sealed, then it is possible to tell that this has been done when security tape is used, as it tears boxes.
No .......... I agree, if packersw collude there is little you can do about that other than periodically supervise them as they are packing (or search them as they leave the house
) or individually sign over the sealed tape on each box. If you have sealed the cartons in your home, and signed for the cartons sealed at your new home then it is unlikely an insurance claim will take your claim seriously I'm afraid, but who knows.I have to say though, that if the packers staff are summararily stealing stuff from people shipments then it would become apparant very quickly indeed, due to similar complaints.
Sorry you've had such a trying time with it all, I hope you manage to sort something out
Thanks again for your time on this.
I agree with all you say; initially a few replies to my origianl post came up with similar "losses" and either had no insurance or decided it was not worth the hassle to complain.
And yes I also thought..surely I am not the first one to have stuff nicked by packers BEFORE it was accounted for.
I decided to start an un-winable task - if only to validate my comments on this and other forum, in order that i can broadcast a warning to others - who like us - would put full trust in a reliable shipping company.
I am hoping for a the comments from the shippers about packers making a mistake sending items destined and notified as rubbish for dumping and inserting fishing rods on the inventory which was notonly wrong, but then make it worse by admitting that one guy packed and the other later wrote in the details. Bad practice from a professional shipper with staff aledged to have over 50 years collective experience ...and them make a mistake expedted from a first day on the job packer. Add to that, they admitted that inventory carton content dscriptionss are not 100%.
So I claim that sihning for a flawed list - is no proof for them to say nothing is missing!! Time will tell.
Its not as though what was missing was mega vauable - unless you knew somebody who wanted art materials and digiatl camers stuff.
I still very lucky that they did not take any of my camera's shipped only because of the collective weight. And although listed en-bloc, none were specifically identified or asked to be so.
As for taking stuff from our house, trustingthem , we left them alone and went to the supermarket! Even so, when we were in the house, we sat in the conservatory... so as not to keep them frompacking by talking to us, so they could still take a box onto the van. And with a free supply of boxes of various sizes and sealing vinyl tape, replacement was not a problem.
I just hope that those about to commit to shippers use this info to protect themselves.
Thanks again for you input on this, but it like a copper once said after we were burgled.... no matter what precautions you take - if some light fingered scumbag covets what you own... they will get it, no matter what!
May 6th 2009, 9:56 am
#59
Banned
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Angle vale Sth Australia
Posts: 5,353
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
May 7th 2009, 9:18 am
#60
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Port Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 356
Re: Advice on Shipping Companies
I've been lurking!! After my husband had a job offer yesterday and has been asked to start 13th July we're getting the ball rolling here.
Great advice.
Rachel
Great advice.
Rachel