Moogle87

Hi Tr1boy,

I'm trying something out with quotes. Sorry if this doesn't work, lol.

I've paid to see a consultant privately in the UK. I was seen in a week. The same time to see him on the NHS? 2 months minimum.
I can't go any further with this because I'm waiting to have a test done that has to be done under general anesthetic. That would cost 1000's & we don't have that kind of money.

If I could get decent cover (I can't, I have too many small conditions that I have to take regular medications for) in the UK I would.
We are lucky that we have healthcare for free here, not everybody in the world has this.
But I would have thought that if we bought private healthcare when we moved abroad (which we would have to for the countries that we have looked at) that we should be seen much faster than what we would if we lived in the UK & had to do it through the NHS.

But I can't lie & say that the state of the NHS doesn't scare us & make us worry about what would happen in the future.

That is what I was trying to find out. What the reality of teaching is like in Aus. From what I've seen/heard, it isn't as bad as the UK, but that it is getting that way & will be soon.
I'm not including hours worked in this. I know that the hours worked will be on a par. But its the culture that I have an issue with.
& lets be honest, if I have to do marking (very few teachers actually enjoy marking, we do it because we know that it has value for the children) I would rather it be on a nice patio, in nice weather with a nice cold drink than stuck in house watching the pouring rain.

Slightly off track, the worst story that I have about teaching the UK was when I was doing my training & a member of staff came into the staff room & said that X has set X's hair on fire.
The staff nodded like this was totally normal.
A job came up, I didn't have one & didn't apply. Says it all really.

I should have been clearer when I said that I don't like risk.
When it comes to money, I will take risks, but only calculated risks.

Hence why I've said we aren't willing to sell our house, leave 2 perm jobs & move half way around the world until I have a full time, perm job offer.

If this means that we don't move to Aus (or anywhere) then this really is fine with us.

Moogle87

I will do, thanks moneypenny.

Moogle87

Can he get me a job at his school please? Lol.
None of the HOD's in my school could afford 4 overseas trips a year!

I will look into this an option, but I don't think Oz is the place for us, so maybe in another country.

Bermudashorts

So you are comparing NHS with private healthcare elsewhere and lamenting that NHS comes off worse? The conditions you mention (mild asthma and IBS) should not be any obstacle to securing private healthcare in the UK. Further if you do have other medical conditions that prove an obstacle to insurance in the UK, then they will be an obstacle in Australia and anywhere else too.

And btw, most parts of Australia will see significantly more rain than anywhere in the UK.

I do think you are right to rule Australia out mainly on the climate point. But to be honest I don't think migration is for you at all as you seem to have impossibly high expectations and I don't think as a teacher you are going to secure that permanent job before you move. I have read your NZ thread and it seems like teaching is just as hard to get a job in over there as it is in Australia.

Maybe count your blessings. You live in a nice part of the UK, you have permanent jobs, your own home that you like, two cars including a brand new one. You work much the same hours as any other professional person. Life is not so bad.

Moogle87

I have more than just IBS & mild asthma.
I'm having a more serious issue investigated at present.
But please forgive the fact that I don't really want to put this on display for everybody to know.

Surely the fact that I've said that I have looked into private healthcare in the UK & the fact that they have said that they can't cover a considerable amount of conditions (because they say that they could be related) is enough?
Basically once you've been diagnosed with something like IBS they will not cover you for pretty much any other condition that could in any way, shape or form be related to it.
In the case of IBS, that is pretty much any stomach condition going, or so I was told when I rang up asking about a quote. Again, this may not be the same for everybody. But I can only speak about what I know & this is what I have been told.

I CAN get cover, but because I have a wide ranging amount of issues, albeit none particularly serious, covering quite a few of my organs, it will mean that I can't be covered for a considerable amount of things. At £70 per month just for me, it quite simply isn't worth it.

Obviously, IF we did move to another country I would need to find out what can/can't be covered under their system.

But as we are no way near that point yet, I haven't felt the need to do this.
We simply said to each other that we thought that it would be worth looking into emigrating.
So that is what I've been trying to do, look into it as a possibility. I've never said anything different to this.

I have said this many times, but I really do thank you for taking the time to keep giving your advice.

With regards to NZ, I have spoken to an agency & they have said that I won't find difficulty getting work.
As I've said on the NZ thread, my worry is where the work is.
Also, the system is better for us in some respects because we can't get a visa until I have a job offer.
So employers will know this when advertising for overseas recruits.
However, if I was to be offered a job & if it isn't somewhere where we want to live, then we will not move.
Although, I am wondering why you are looking up what has been said on that thread to be honest.

You are right, I do have a lot to be thankful for. There are a lot of good things about living in the UK & we do have a fairly comfortable life. This can't be said for everybody.

But I don't see anything wrong in asking people about the option of moving abroad to see what its like and as I have said on numerous occasions, we have a lot to give up here, so would only consider moving if it was for the right opportunity.

I fail to see how me saying this shows that I have impossibly high expectations.
I know what we would be giving up & have clearly said that I would only consider giving this up IF I could get a perm job etc etc.

I have also said, many, many times that if the right opportunity doesn't come along, then we will not move.
This is me recognising exactly what we have here.

I just wanted to know what it would be like to find work, housing etc.
From my POV the best people to ask this to are those who are currently living abroad or those who have in the past.

However, I do disagree that teachers do an average amount of working hours for the wage we get paid.
So many people say to me "Ohhhhhh, I couldn't be a teacher. I don't know how you do it" when I tell them what I do. There must be a reason for this.
I don't think that teaching is seen as an easy job. Certainly not in the UK anyway.
And if it was so few hours, for such good pay, why would there be a huge recruitment crisis in the UK?

Like I said, my FIL probably works more hours than I do, but is on £80k+ a year.

I would be interested to see how much people earn who are doing similar hours to the average teacher.

But, do you know what, I might be totally wrong. I might be earning an amazing wage for the amount of hours that I do & if this is the case then I will hold my hands up, admit that I was wrong & count my blessings.

BEVS

Please be aware that countries will have what is called a 'standard of health'.

The IBS itself would likely have your application referred to a medical assessor. If there is something 'more serious' then that would definitely raise an alarm with immigration.

Then you have been mislead. There is a glut of home grown teachers in New Zealand. The occupation is oversupplied . Those unable to find a perm teaching job have looked overseas or had to go into supply or volunteer or simply try to find other work.
It is about who you know .

jad n rich

My brother and GF, no kids, 2 incomes, travel that much every year. Its the sort of thing you dont appreciate till you give it up, distance and cost.

A typical year would include Amsterdam twice a year, something new like Iceland and one big trip like Cuba. That was last years lot.

In Canada, BC is going to have the most livable weather unless you like seriously freezing, however anywhere within an hour of Vancouver will cost you a income so seriously unrelated to Canadian wages its impossible to comprehend. Very expensive.

I dont know about teachers for sure, but check out holidays there, much less than UK. A relative in Canada, he works in Schools as a social worker, ( very high drug use in BC) and lots of poverty. Anyway in long summer hols he has to look for work each year as his contract only pays him for weeks worked! Hes been in 2 BC school boards and both have been the same. Massive cuts in the school system, he was laid off with one board and took 8 months unemployed to get on with a new one, less money and an hours commute to North Van, where they cant afford to buy. He is Canadian, did Uni there and he has found the last 3 years a struggle. But OMG if you can make it there its a lovely place and a great base for USA trips if you drive down to Seattle as a starting point ( cheaper ) .

Moogle87

I was aware that this would happen. But I don't know if I do/don't have it yet.

Again, I didn't see the harm in asking for people's advice whilst waiting for my test & results to come through.


That is fine. I have been very clear with what I will/will not be willing to accept with the agency. I do know what teaching agencies are like because I have worked with them in the UK.

However, as I have found in the UK, they can sometimes be telling the truth. My philosophy is to believe people until they give me a reason not to. Unless something is obviously a lie/seems off. Like when I got told I would get work & a few weeks later I got offered a position on supply which was for almost an entire school year.

I believe that there are jobs in NZ. But as I have said numerous times, I am also aware that it is likely that these will be in areas where people don't generally want to live & in that case we will happily stay in the UK & not move.
I have seen a position for an ICT teacher in Auckland advertised only on UK sites. I checked the website & it wasn't on there.
Not that I will apply because a) its in Auckland & b) we have not even decided that we do want to move yet. We are no way near this conclusion.

Bermudashorts

You don't seem to be taking a lot in.

You keep assuming that things will be different in Australia, NZ or wherever. That life has to be better. Yes you don't know before you ask, but you have now been told many times by numerous people that a lot of things work much the same and yet you still keep on about how hard your life is in the UK. I haven't once seen you express a reason for wanting to try another country, other than you think it will be better than the UK.

First it was that teachers in Australia must have a better deal than teachers in UK, that they don't work more than their contracted hours, don't have to mark work, don't have to work through lunch, don't have to plan lessons, don't have targets.

Now medical insurance. As I say asthma and IBS are nowhere near serious enough to rule somebody out of acquiring cover. If you have problems getting medical insurance in the UK for other conditions, then you will have problems anywhere else. Insurance works pretty much the same way, why wouldn't it? So I just don't understand why you keep going on and on about these things.

By the way if you do have such serous or numerous medical issues that mean health insurance is out of reach, then you might not even be able to pass a medical in order to get a visa.

I have previously commented on salaries and hours when you raised it a few pages ago. But I will repeat, I am a professional in the private sector and most people I know are also professionals who work in the private sector. And professional people are expected to work whatever hours are required. It doesn't matter what they earn, it doesn't matter if they are starting out and earn £20k or if they are more established and earn £100k. This is life for professional employees in private companies.

Why did I look at other threads? Why shouldn't I? Actually I was curious to see if teaching in NZ was as hard to break into as teaching in Australia. I got that it was, you seem to have come away with a different impression somehow.

The impossibly high expectations I refer to. Well that you will get offered a full time permanent job before you move, that you will not have to work more than your contracted hours, that you won't have targets, that work wil be more "family friendly", that you will be able to work in whatever desirable location you choose, that you will be able to buy a modern house in a nice area for $250k, that the medical conditions that preclude you from health insurance in the UK will not be an issue in other countries, that you will not have to wait for public services in other locations. To mention but a few.

I don't think these things are realistic and as such I cannot see you pulling this off. I think just get on with your life, which really doesn't sound too bad to me.

Moogle87

First of all, at no point did I ever say that teachers in any other countries don't have to work more than their contracted hours.

All I said was that in the UK the average was 55 & that in terms of the culture of teaching, I can't see that it is the same everywhere, as what it is in the UK.

If I'm not taking in what people are saying, why have I said, numerous times, that I don't think that Australia is right for us.

Surely, if I wasn't taking anything in I would have said "You know what, I've listened to you all, but think actually, we are going to give it a go anyway."

I haven't said how hard MY life is in the UK. I have literally just said that we have a fairly comfortable life here, we love our house, we both have 2 perm jobs & we don't want to give that up unless its for the right opportunity & if that doesn't happen, then fine we will stay here.

I'm saying that because I recognise that we have a good life in the UK.

I have been very careful to talk about the culture of the UK, but from my perspective.
I have used examples from my life to back up my points eg. the waiting times that people that I know have had to experience.

Everything that I have said about teaching has been about teaching in general. The only time I have really spoken about my particular circumstances has been when I said that sometimes I work more than 55 hours and sometimes less. I think I also gave an example of how many students I teach to demonstrate my point that I don't have a problem with marking work.
I think I also said about how much time during the week that I get to do my planning etc. But this is the same for every teacher, this isn't just how much I get because we all get the same unless you have additional responsibilities.

At NO point have I said that Aus teachers don't have to do plan as many lessons, have as many targets etc. That simply is not true.

I have spoken about how we feel in terms of our uncertainty for the future of work for me (the proposed changes to schools) & the NHS.

I don't keep going on & on about medical insurance. I am merely responding to messages when it has been mentioned.

Once again, you haven't given me any specific examples of people in jobs who are working more than 55 hours for more than what teachers earn.

& you are saying that I have unrealistic expectations. How is this the case when I have clearly said that it clearly isn't right for us?

"You can't get a perm job. You won't get a house for that much money & You will struggle to get a mortgage with 10%" - My reply has been, OK that isn't right for us then.

How is that an unrealistic expectation?

I didn't know coming in what the case would be. That is why I've asked questions. I was told the facts & then said that we wouldn't want to move then.

An unrealistic expectation would for people to say to me that I have no chance & then moving anyway thinking that I know better than them.
This is NOT what I have said or think.

You say that you don't feel that I am taking what you have to say on board, but I've very clearly said that we are not going to consider moving to Aus anymore.

I feel that every time I say something, you are twisting it. Eg. I give a fact from a national survey that says that teachers work 55 hours on average & then you reply by saying that I've said that I don't expect to mark as much, plan as much, do as many additional hours if I moved to Australia.
I NEVER said that.

Finally, you are right, my life isn't too bad. I have literally just said this on post #84:

You are right, I do have a lot to be thankful for. There are a lot of good things about living in the UK & we do have a fairly comfortable life. This can't be said for everybody.

But as I have said so many times before, I was wondering what it was like in other countries & wanted to find out. I don't see the harm in that. When I've been asked questions about why we want to move, I've tried to answer them truthfully & with what I feel at that point in time.

I also never said that health insurance is out of reach. I said this:

I CAN get cover, but because I have a wide ranging amount of issues, albeit none particularly serious, covering quite a few of my organs, it will mean that I can't be covered for a considerable amount of things. At £70 per month just for me, it quite simply isn't worth it.

Unfortunately when you have been diagnosed with something like IBS then they will cover very few things to do with gastrointestinal diseases (as one example) because IBS has so many different symptoms that are totally different for everyone.
This is what I've been told, I can only go off what I've been told.

You are right, it is a public forum and you have every right to look at other conversations.
However, I feel like you are trying to use things that I've said to catch me out & twist what I am saying.
I also feel like you are starting to get personal towards me now.
If this isn't the case & I am wrong, I apologise.

I haven't come away with a different impression for NZ. People have said that it is hard to get a job. I have said that an agency told me that I shouldn't have any issues BUT that I am concerned that these will be in places where we want to live.
I then said, as I have said on this thread, that we wouldn't move if it wasn't where we want to live.
How is that me coming away with a different opinion?
I can ONLY comment on what I have been told.
Why do I have any reason to suspect that what the agency has told me is a load of rubbish? However, I did say that I suspect that when she says that I will not struggle to get a job, that I suspect that these will be in areas where we do not want to live.

Once again, I am recognising that actually what we have here is not so bad because we aren't willing to give it up for an opportunity that isn't right for us.


Once again, I do thank you for you advice. You have been helpful. I sincerely mean this. You have helped us to realise that a move to Australia isn't right for us. For lots of different reasons. But I would now like to end this discussion thread with you as I feel that it is now becoming totally unproductive & unhelpful to both me and anybody else who might want to read this thread in the future.
Once again, thank you for your time.

bimble

in some ways i think you being judged a bit to harshly, i understand the pull of a different country just because it is a better fit in a way you just cant explain, but the reasons you are giving don't seem to be good enough reasons to move. that saying, i don't think its a good reason to stop considering it, sometimes you just know there's somewhere out there that's a better fit for you. the concern is that you aren't going to find it until you visit these places, and if you're only able to visit one, then i hope you chose the right one!

just in regards to NZ, you say you wouldn't apply for that particular job as it is in Aukland - why is that? maybe i have misunderstood, but if you are already ruling out places such as Aukland, then i think finding a job in NZ is going to be near impossible. As for agencies, i like your enthusiasm, but going back to my original post, be prepared not to work for a few months no matter where you end up, i too have had experiences with both good and bad agencies (nursing, but they are all the same), and looking back i cant see any way to know which were the good and which were the bad from the start.

i understand that the idea of securing a job before you arrive is very attractive, but please consider that this means moving to a country you had already ruled out, and it rules out the place you originally wanted to go. is it worth ending up in the wrong country to have job security? maybe it is, but i think you have ruled out Australia a little to quickly on one or two aspects. The problem is if you want to move somewhere where you can sit outside on the patio rather than inside and watch the rain, then you need to learn to like the heat! but as i said, you need to experience the dry heat, i'm more uncomfortable and sweaty on a 30 degree day in London or southern Spain than i am on a 38 degree day in Melbourne.

In terms of health insurance, oh i could talk about this for years. having worked in the NHS i agree it is completely broken. I had a lot of small investigations done under the NHS for free that would have cost a fortune in Aus, but like you i got to wait 10 weeks for each seperate appointment, which meant i spent a good year being investigated for a minor problem, being referred from one specialist to another. in that time i came home for a holiday, paid to see my GP who was not rushed so actually took the time to listen, did bloods and referred for an ultrasound (in the UK i had to come back to the GP 3 times before bloods were ordered), paid for the ultrasound, but had a diagnosis within a week. So to me the cost was well worth it when i consider how many days i had to take off, and the travel costs and the wasted time under the NHS. I still think the NHS is great for those who cant afford it, but i wonder how long it can continue. in Aus i have private health insurance, havn't had to declare any medical conditions, but just be aware that there is a 12 month waiting period before you can use your insurance for pre-existing conditions, and even then the procedures are not 100% covered and most outpatient consultations are not. Also private insurance does not cover the cost of the GP, and my insurance (though i think this is common) only covers 55-75% of the cost of dental bills, capped at $400 a year.

overall I would still chose Melbourne over England any day, i didn't want to come back as was still having a great time on extended holiday over there (5 years, the holiday couldn't last forever), and even my husband on minimum wage here is feeling the benefits. so if deep down you know leaving is an eventuality then don't be put off, just maybe rethink what type of lifestyle you want and don't be swayed by the lure of job security, you spend so much time at work that a secure job in a country that you hate is not going to help your situation, you may have to consider if your able to take just a bit more risk.

BTW, an around the world ticket a few years back with 3 or 4 stopovers wasn't that much more expensive than a return ticket i didn't think...

Moogle87

Thank you for this comment:

To be honest, Australia was always more my husbands idea, I always thought that, for me, NZ would be a better fit. However, it would be really unfair for me to rule out Aus without finding the facts first.
I just get that feeling that NZ would be a better fit.
Again, if we go there I could be totally wrong about it.
But it feels a bit like when you go house hunting, you go into that house & you think I love this place. It just feels so right.

We both got that in our house & yet we looked at another, much cheaper, much bigger house & I just knew that although on paper, it was a no brainer, that our house was where we wanted to be. Neither of us regret our choice.

I always try to go off that gut instinct feeling (whilst weighing up the practicalities as well of course)

Me too!
But we won't move unless it feels right, Bermuda is right, we do have a good life here.

Auckland is CRAZY expensive for housing. Somebody said to me that they were renting either a 2 or 3 bed for something like £1350 a month.

London House Prices Have Nothing on Auckland - Bloomberg Business


I agree, my experience when I had 2 months (Sept & Oct - I knew there would be no work) of unemployment at the start of my teaching career.
I didn't know which would be any good either.
However, I have had the teaching agency that I have spoken to recommended to me, so hopefully they aren't too bad.
When I think back to my experience in the UK, it was only the one who had been recommended to me who was any good.

We are prepared for hubby to not be working for a few months & we do understand that we may need a bit of set up time, where I'm not working. But then we both agree that we need a stable income coming in.

I don't think that it is worth going to the wrong country for job security, but job security is a HUGE factor for us & we just couldn't make that jump without it.
My comment with the sitting outside was a bit over egged to be fair. What I mean is for at least 6 months of the year I am sat inside, when it is cold, wet, miserable grey weather.
But if you went to somewhere with nicer weather it wouldn't seem quite as bad when you are spending 6 - 8 hours on a Sunday marking work.
Even if you are sitting onside in the rain, it might at least be a little bit warmer.
Even though I don't like really hot, humid weather, even I prefer to be in a slightly warmer climate.

To be fair all of the conditions that I currently have are quite minor. I just seem to have a quite a few for my age. Mind you I'm comparing to my husband who never has anything wrong. I can't even remember when he last had a cold! They are more the type of thing where you can mostly manage it yourself eg. I can't eat onions, they make my IBS really flare up. Therefore I avoid them wherever possible.
I do need regular meds for things like hayfever, very mild asthma, I take peppermint capsules, but these I would have thought are pretty run of the mill conditions/meds.
Obviously I'm not sure what will happen when I have this test, but we will cross that bridge when it comes.
It isn't anything like a heart or neurological disorder.

When I've looked into health insurance for NZ that is the same. You can get cover for dental & GP apts & prescriptions but it is expensive & people have said it isn't worth it.
I do think that (after reading up about different countries) we take for granted that we get GP appointments for free in the UK.

I'm really glad that you & your hubby are so happy with your lives in Melbourne. It is nice to hear from somebody who is so happy with their decision.

Whatever we decide, I'm sure we will be happy too.

I don't want to rush into anything, but I am aware that I'm 29. We kind of have a now or never feeling at the moment.

But we will be sensible about it all & we will take all the advice on board.


I really didn't know that!

verystormy

I will post as someone that has lived in Oz and has recently returned to the UK.

I have a number of friends that are teachers in Australia and I have done volunteer teaching in Australia.

My observations:

1. Teachers in Oz work just as long hours and have to deal with the same crap as teachers in the UK. Have the same issues with unruly pupils and bad parents. In most subjects there is also an over supply of teachers. The exception being maths and science where there is a chronic shortage. The issue this causes is that many people are teaching science and maths who are not qualified to do so. One of my good friends is a PE teacher, but having to teach sciences and math. He has also found it impossible to get a contract in a city school - he was teaching in a small mining town in WA. That is also where I volunteered as I am a scientist. If you think you have seen bad things in schools in the UK. Trust me you haven't. In this town, half of the population according to police figures are addicted to drugs. The result is very obvious in the school.

2. In my opinion, Oz and Oz lifestyle are no better than the UK. Things are just different. People still go to work, clean the loo and do the shopping. There are pluses, but also negatives. For example, it is very clean (Perth), but can feel plastic with a lack of culture and history. Hence, we are really enjoying now living in Windsor.

3. People watch TV shows and think everyone spends all their time on the beach. Totally false.

4. People think they will be much more outdoor people by living in Oz. Again, false. The heat can be far more oppressive than cold. We spent this weekend out walking - mainly along the Thames. Yes it was windy, cold and at times raining. But still stunning and far easier to deal with by wearing the right clothes than 40c heat that makes you just want to sit under the air con.

5. I am far from clear you will be eligible for a visa in any case and if you want to persue it, I strongly suggest you speak to a migration agent with expertise in visas for people with medical issues such as George Lombard

moneypenny20

We did. In my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with the UK, we love the place, we loved living there etc etc. We felt like an adventure, 10+ years later we love Aus, we love living here. Will we go back? The husband won't but me and our daughters have always said 'who knows, never say never'. We're not alone in how we feel, many many people on here and elsewhere think the same.

People have talked about the push and the pull. If you're only being pushed and there's no real pull, any move will not succeed and you will find the same negatives you feel now.

Dorothy

Us too. Mind you, as most know I'm not from UK. However I loved where we lived and would have been just as happy to have stayed there for the rest of our lives. We only moved for the adventure. Like you, Pen I've said never say never. The boy is interested in maybe moving to Canada so we're doing a recce in May.

Although I think I've scared him off by telling him we have to be married to get a visa.