Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Rest of the World > Africa
Reload this Page >

Zimbabwe - what future??

Zimbabwe - what future??

Old Apr 4th 2008, 10:48 am
  #76  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 42
Leigh of the Valley is just really niceLeigh of the Valley is just really niceLeigh of the Valley is just really niceLeigh of the Valley is just really niceLeigh of the Valley is just really niceLeigh of the Valley is just really niceLeigh of the Valley is just really niceLeigh of the Valley is just really nice
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by Brav
I don't believe races are equal. Nor do I believe males and females are equal. I have more testosterone than a female. Is that equal?
This is exactly the kind of prejudice I have seen a lot on this forum. I wonder if you would be brave enough to admit this in front of an audience of people from different races! It would be interesting to see their reactions towards you
Leigh of the Valley is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 10:50 am
  #77  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 733
shiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Are you a troll?

The blacks and whites have been living in peace and harmony since independance, and for many (believe it or not) for many years prior.

Do you not know, or care to know what the problem is- that of a crazed, power-hungry thug that is the dictator who has manipulated everything around him to suit his own delusioned mind. He has imprisoned the very people he supposedly freed.

Why do post offensive comments littered with prejudiced and uninformed statements?

Before you refer to my reply- it is directed firstly to highlight your hypocrisy, and secondly delivered with the same tone to try and highlight how pathetic your post was.


Originally Posted by pgtips

I just pray that one day the blacks and whites in Zimbabwe will learn how to live in peace and harmony and no one is judged by the colour of their skin, but the content of their character.
shiftdelete is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 10:55 am
  #78  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 733
shiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Don't be super silly....of course everyone is equal. Perhaps they are jerking you around for asking such a silly question.

If not, they are idiots and should get off this forum and not unlike many black racists out there.


Originally Posted by Leigh of the Valley
This question is neither here nor there.
If you care to read the whole discussion you will get the gist that your evil twin brother, Pablo, does not believe that everyone is equal. What about you Daxk, do you believe all races are equal?
shiftdelete is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 10:56 am
  #79  
BE Forum Addict
 
newshoney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: One foot in Calgary, one in London
Posts: 1,102
newshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Back to the thread - what future for Zimbabwe?

And TigerOC's first post does suggest that because TIA all black leaders are bound to be despots and kleptocrats which is offensive... and not just because Botswana and Mauritius are the obvious exceptions.

I fail to see why, if the best-case scenario unfolds for the current situation and there is a peaceful regime change, Zimbabwe cannot make progress. Morgan Tsvangirai was derided by Mugabe for his lack of education as a political strategy to undermine him. He doesn't need to be a genius: after 9 years MT has shown sufficient courage and political nous to merit his turn at the helm.

Further, lack of intelligence/education have proved no bar to leaders in the so-called developed world. Just look at George Bush or even Ronald Reagan -president while suffering from Alzheimer's. The trick surely is to deploy the right people in the right jobs. So far MT has promised to form a government of national unity. It's suggested he'll put Dabengwa in as VP, Makoni as Finance Minister and so on... more importantly he intends this parliament to become a constitutional assembly.

You may sneer from afar, but there are millions of Zimbabweans (black, brown and white) who want to give him a chance. It's up to them to vote him out if he doesn't deliver. I have met or talked to a good number of people who want to go back and re-invest provided they see enough change to guarantee the restoration of the rule of law (to include guarantees for property rights etc.).

Zimbabwe is a beautiful country with huge potential. The day after the election I was with a white Zim friend checking the blue results sheets at Strathaven where six hungry, thirsty policemen and women were spending the day sitting in the shade of the polling tent, guarding the results. My friend asked them what they thought was going to happen, would we (i.e. whites) be safe?

They smiled, reassured us "We are all Zimbabweans, we are in this together my sister. Never fear."
newshoney is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 10:59 am
  #80  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Pablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by Leigh of the Valley
... your evil twin brother, Pablo...
Excuse me?

As I said before, you have set up some sort of hate-figure in your own fevered imagination, and you are now working yourself into an emotional frenzy attacking that fantasy-figure of your own creation. It is absurd.
Pablo is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 11:14 am
  #81  
Senior Moment
 
Mitzyboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Mitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond reputeMitzyboy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Lets try and keep this on subject can we
Throwing insults around aint getting anywhere .... everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether it be positive or negative
Mitzyboy is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 11:15 am
  #82  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 733
shiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to beholdshiftdelete is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

aah...some sanity- the pen is mightier than the sword.

While I don't buy into everything you have said, I do buy in to your optimism and love for the zimbabwean people.

zonkimombi. Peace.

Originally Posted by newshoney
Back to the thread - what future for Zimbabwe?

And TigerOC's first post does suggest that because TIA all black leaders are bound to be despots and kleptocrats which is offensive... and not just because Botswana and Mauritius are the obvious exceptions.

I fail to see why, if the best-case scenario unfolds for the current situation and there is a peaceful regime change, Zimbabwe cannot make progress. Morgan Tsvangirai was derided by Mugabe for his lack of education as a political strategy to undermine him. He doesn't need to be a genius: after 9 years MT has shown sufficient courage and political nous to merit his turn at the helm.

Further, lack of intelligence/education have proved no bar to leaders in the so-called developed world. Just look at George Bush or even Ronald Reagan -president while suffering from Alzheimer's. The trick surely is to deploy the right people in the right jobs. So far MT has promised to form a government of national unity. It's suggested he'll put Dabengwa in as VP, Makoni as Finance Minister and so on... more importantly he intends this parliament to become a constitutional assembly.

You may sneer from afar, but there are millions of Zimbabweans (black, brown and white) who want to give him a chance. It's up to them to vote him out if he doesn't deliver. I have met or talked to a good number of people who want to go back and re-invest provided they see enough change to guarantee the restoration of the rule of law (to include guarantees for property rights etc.).

Zimbabwe is a beautiful country with huge potential. The day after the election I was with a white Zim friend checking the blue results sheets at Strathaven where six hungry, thirsty policemen and women were spending the day sitting in the shade of the polling tent, guarding the results. My friend asked them what they thought was going to happen, would we (i.e. whites) be safe?

They smiled, reassured us "We are all Zimbabweans, we are in this together my sister. Never fear."
shiftdelete is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 11:24 am
  #83  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Pablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by newshoney
.. and Mauritius are the obvious exceptions.
Isn't Mauritius run by an Indian oligarchy?
Pablo is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 11:34 am
  #84  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 112
TigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really niceTigerOC is just really nice
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Thanks Newshoney for bringing some sanity back into the thread.

I am a long time professional association politician and know full well that throwing controversial statements in at the beginning is going to elicit perhaps some insightful thoughts. That's why i do it. it would be boring otherwise.

Mugabe has been so ruthlessly efficient is his masking of the MDC that they have always fought a war to survive never mind give us any idea what they can present. I am interested to hear your comments on the ground. I am still very sceptical (through historical events in Africa) that the MDC isn't just another smoke and mirrors operation.

I knew the newly elected Pres of Botswana fairly well many years ago. He is a similar age to me and went to private schools in Bulawayo and we played age group cricket against each other over a period of about 6 years. He was fine young man when I knew him and I am sure he will continue to improve Botswana's status in Africa and the world. Botswana was fortunate to have been isolated in the rough and tumble of emerging Africa as it had nothing to offer anyone at the time except desert and swamps. I remember it as a desperately poor country. My outstanding memory was the railway station at Palape where the parents used to deliberately mame their children in order to beg from passing trains. We used buy curios and nagapies there when we passed through as varsity students.
TigerOC is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 12:57 pm
  #85  
BE Forum Addict
 
newshoney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: One foot in Calgary, one in London
Posts: 1,102
newshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by TigerOC
Thanks Newshoney for bringing some sanity back into the thread.

I am a long time professional association politician and know full well that throwing controversial statements in at the beginning is going to elicit perhaps some insightful thoughts. That's why i do it. it would be boring otherwise.

Mugabe has been so ruthlessly efficient is his masking of the MDC that they have always fought a war to survive never mind give us any idea what they can present. I am interested to hear your comments on the ground. I am still very sceptical (through historical events in Africa) that the MDC isn't just another smoke and mirrors operation.

I knew the newly elected Pres of Botswana fairly well many years ago. He is a similar age to me and went to private schools in Bulawayo and we played age group cricket against each other over a period of about 6 years. He was fine young man when I knew him and I am sure he will continue to improve Botswana's status in Africa and the world. Botswana was fortunate to have been isolated in the rough and tumble of emerging Africa as it had nothing to offer anyone at the time except desert and swamps. I remember it as a desperately poor country. My outstanding memory was the railway station at Palape where the parents used to deliberately mame their children in order to beg from passing trains. We used buy curios and nagapies there when we passed through as varsity students.

Fascinating. I read Wilf and Trish Mbanga's biography of Seretse and Ruth with much enjoyment but I'm not very familiary with Ian's story - isn't he military and not elected but nominated by parliament? I get the impression there is some controversy over why he has never married.

As for the MDC - I don't pretend this party is the answer to all Zimbabwe's prayers. But Morgan Tsvangerai et al can only be judged on what they do. Personally I have some misgivings about him, but also a great deal of respect just as I have for Arthur Mutambara, who unusually for a politician, seems genuinely self-effacing and dedicated to public service. I don't know the full story of the MDC split but from what I hear, MT did not act honourably.

All the same, MT has committed himself to uniting all the anti-ZPF forces and both Mutambara and Makoni have called on the people to back him if there is a run-off. He has also promised a government of national unity and to have parliament become a constitutional assembly. David Coltart flew into London today and was interviewed on the BBC this morning. He alone of the Mutambara faction has been re-elected to his Senate seat in Bulawayo. I mention his name because he is among the many capable people that the MDC can count on.

To Pablo and 1066 and others I would add that I am a former resident of Angola so I have personal experience of African corruption and incompetence... but as a resident of the UK I'm equally familiar with European corruption and incompetence. I can only say that I have not felt at all unsafe in Zimbabwe, not in Harare, nor in the townships. In fact I have met with nothing but courtesy, warmth and kindness from all, even the military and police.

Last edited by newshoney; Apr 4th 2008 at 12:59 pm. Reason: snipping orphan half-sentence from end
newshoney is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 1:01 pm
  #86  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Pablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by newshoney
To Pablo and 1066 and others I would add...
Why, Newshoney, do you single me out for this comment of yours? Surely you too are not leaping on the bandwaggon!
Pablo is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 1:12 pm
  #87  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Pablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by newshoney
I have met with nothing but courtesy, warmth and kindness from all, even the military and police.
There is something almost Unity Mitford-esque about this comment.
Pablo is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 2:25 pm
  #88  
BE Forum Addict
 
newshoney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: One foot in Calgary, one in London
Posts: 1,102
newshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by Pablo
Why, Newshoney, do you single me out for this comment of yours? Surely you too are not leaping on the bandwaggon!
I refer to "Pablo, 1066 and others..." so hardly singled out.

Originally Posted by Pablo
There is something almost Unity Mitford-esque about this comment.
as in I've met some really nice Nazis... yes I take your point. The few I dealt with are not necessarily representative of the whole. I was expecting all, if not most, of them to be at least abrupt and unsmiling with l'il ol whitey here... instead there was universal courtesy and good grace, so I thought I'd mention it.
newshoney is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 2:29 pm
  #89  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Pablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond reputePablo has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Originally Posted by newshoney
I refer to "Pablo, 1066 and others..." so hardly singled out.
You hedge, but no matter. If you have a point you want to make about me, though, I'd rather you didn't descend to the same wearisome Straw Man nonsense as others seem unable to keep themselves from doing.

as in I've met some really nice Nazis... yes I take your point. The few I dealt with are not necessarily representative of the whole. I was expecting all, if not most, of them to be at least abrupt and unsmiling with l'il ol whitey here... instead there was universal courtesy and good grace, so I thought I'd mention it.
Fine. But you know how your words will be misunderstood.
Pablo is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2008, 2:55 pm
  #90  
BE Forum Addict
 
newshoney's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: One foot in Calgary, one in London
Posts: 1,102
newshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond reputenewshoney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Zimbabwe - what future??

Not all of those serving in the Zimbabwean military, police or intelligence forces are decent, civilised, warm human beings. I dare to suggest that some are and that we shouldn't lose all hope.
newshoney is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.