Zimbabwe - what future??
Apr 2nd 2008, 7:46 am
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 112
Zimbabwe - what future??
Amid all the euphoria surrounding the perceived victory of the MDC and the final exit of Mugabe and the influence of Zanu-PF, everyone has lost sight of what these people can actually deliver.
The country is in a worse state than some countries that have been defeated in a major conflict. There is nothing left in terms of either infrastructure or the economy.
Look at the calibre of the people in the MDC. Their leader is a former Mine foreman and I have seen nothing behind him that gives any kind of confidence that these people can reform the system so that it becomes a functioning state again. It will take some very talented economists to resurrect this one.
The people of Zimbabwe have been so brain-washed by their former communist masters that they will not take advise from any Western advisor.
My personal opinion is that this is the same car, different colour. Morgan is already rubbing his hands in glee at the hundreds of millions of pounds waiting to be transferred into his personal bank account. I am sure that the first thing he is going to do is buy some nice properties outside Zimbabwe. Some of the more enterprising whites and white collar criminals, in the mould of van Hoogstraaten, will already be getting down to work to ensure that they can provide the right channels to launder all this money.
A lot of this money is going to be channelled through the Taliban drug lords and then on to the streets of Britain, Europe and the USA. The profits to be made will be phenomenal. The loss of the brave troops from these countries trying to combat this is merely collateral damage. And in a few years time they will be getting Bob Geldorf to organise a special function in Europe to right off the debt.
If you think I am being overly pessimistic, watch this space. I was born and brought up there. I am of an age where I can remember how this country was built into what it was.
The economic strength of the Rhodesia was built largely after WW2 by some very special people. They were mostly South African and British WW2 veterans and they were very skilled. They had developed special skills through the extreme events they went through during the War. They knew how to cope under extreme pressure and how to work very hard.
The application of sanctions following UDI merely accelerated this development. They turned the country from a primary economy into a secondary economy with very little assistance, through sheer genius and hard work.
Everyone points out what a fantastic agricultural sector they had. The farmers were very good. This country is not a good place to farm except up in the North East. It is slightly too arid to be successful. That didn't stop these men they developed GM crops that were drought resistant.
This time was unique. Those men and women, and their son's and daughters who were as determined and successful as their parents are now gone.
When we left out beloved home to these murderous thugs we had what is now a prophetic quip;
"Come and see the Zimbabwe Ruins today and the Ruins of Zimbabwe tomorrow"
We weren't wrong.
It will take a miracle to save this country and it won't be found in the lazy, demotivated mob that now populates this place.
The country is in a worse state than some countries that have been defeated in a major conflict. There is nothing left in terms of either infrastructure or the economy.
Look at the calibre of the people in the MDC. Their leader is a former Mine foreman and I have seen nothing behind him that gives any kind of confidence that these people can reform the system so that it becomes a functioning state again. It will take some very talented economists to resurrect this one.
The people of Zimbabwe have been so brain-washed by their former communist masters that they will not take advise from any Western advisor.
My personal opinion is that this is the same car, different colour. Morgan is already rubbing his hands in glee at the hundreds of millions of pounds waiting to be transferred into his personal bank account. I am sure that the first thing he is going to do is buy some nice properties outside Zimbabwe. Some of the more enterprising whites and white collar criminals, in the mould of van Hoogstraaten, will already be getting down to work to ensure that they can provide the right channels to launder all this money.
A lot of this money is going to be channelled through the Taliban drug lords and then on to the streets of Britain, Europe and the USA. The profits to be made will be phenomenal. The loss of the brave troops from these countries trying to combat this is merely collateral damage. And in a few years time they will be getting Bob Geldorf to organise a special function in Europe to right off the debt.
If you think I am being overly pessimistic, watch this space. I was born and brought up there. I am of an age where I can remember how this country was built into what it was.
The economic strength of the Rhodesia was built largely after WW2 by some very special people. They were mostly South African and British WW2 veterans and they were very skilled. They had developed special skills through the extreme events they went through during the War. They knew how to cope under extreme pressure and how to work very hard.
The application of sanctions following UDI merely accelerated this development. They turned the country from a primary economy into a secondary economy with very little assistance, through sheer genius and hard work.
Everyone points out what a fantastic agricultural sector they had. The farmers were very good. This country is not a good place to farm except up in the North East. It is slightly too arid to be successful. That didn't stop these men they developed GM crops that were drought resistant.
This time was unique. Those men and women, and their son's and daughters who were as determined and successful as their parents are now gone.
When we left out beloved home to these murderous thugs we had what is now a prophetic quip;
"Come and see the Zimbabwe Ruins today and the Ruins of Zimbabwe tomorrow"
We weren't wrong.
It will take a miracle to save this country and it won't be found in the lazy, demotivated mob that now populates this place.
Last edited by TigerOC; Apr 2nd 2008 at 7:49 am.
Apr 2nd 2008, 9:32 am
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 42
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
Amid all the euphoria surrounding the perceived victory of the MDC and the final exit of Mugabe and the influence of Zanu-PF, everyone has lost sight of what these people can actually deliver.
So whats your solution to that? Would you rather have Mugabe in power then? What exactly is your point?
The country is in a worse state than some countries that have been defeated in a major conflict. There is nothing left in terms of either infrastructure or the economy.
Again whats your point?
, everyone knows that already
Look at the calibre of the people in the MDC. Their leader is a former Mine foreman and I have seen nothing behind him that gives any kind of confidence that these people can reform the system so that it becomes a functioning state again. It will take some very talented economists to resurrect this one.
Change of government is better than nothing. The proof of the pudding is in the eating..
The people of Zimbabwe have been so brain-washed by their former communist masters that they will not take advise from any Western advisor.
Which people of Zimbabwe are you talking about? Please do not generalise because generalisations are never accurate
. What proof have you got regarding this? How many Zimbabweans have you done a survey on?
Also what makes you so confident that advise will need to come from a Westerner?
My personal opinion is that this is the same car, different colour. Morgan is already rubbing his hands in glee at the hundreds of millions of pounds waiting to be transferred into his personal bank account.
Respect to the man, he has been in opposition for nearly ten years, he has been beaten up and harassed just for opposing the regime
. Would you have done that in his shoes?
I am sure that the first thing he is going to do is buy some nice properties outside Zimbabwe. Some of the more enterprising whites and white collar criminals, in the mould of van Hoogstraaten, will already be getting down to work to ensure that they can provide the right channels to launder all this money.
He might or he might not. There is no evidence to suggest this so far.
A lot of this money is going to be channelled through the Taliban drug lords and then on to the streets of Britain, Europe and the USA. The profits to be made will be phenomenal. The loss of the brave troops from these countries trying to combat this is merely collateral damage. And in a few years time they will be getting Bob Geldorf to organise a special function in Europe to right off the debt.
Is that the plot for your fictitious novel?
If you think I am being overly pessimistic, watch this space. I was born and brought up there. I am of an age where I can remember how this country was built into what it was.
Yet you refer to "these people" throughout. Is it the us and them scenario?
The economic strength of the Rhodesia was built largely after WW2 by some very special people. They were mostly South African and British WW2 veterans and they were very skilled. They had developed special skills through the extreme events they went through during the War. They knew how to cope under extreme pressure and how to work very hard.
You omit to say that these very special people killed so many africans and denied the millions of those black zimbabweans their rights. They also practiced apatheid.
The application of sanctions following UDI merely accelerated this development. They turned the country from a primary economy into a secondary economy with very little assistance, through sheer genius and hard work.
Guess whose hard labour was used in developing the economy. Black africans!!
Everyone points out what a fantastic agricultural sector they had. The farmers were very good. This country is not a good place to farm except up in the North East. It is slightly too arid to be successful. That didn't stop these men they developed GM crops that were drought resistant.
Guess again whose labour was used to toil the land!!
This time was unique. Those men and women, and their son's and daughters who were as determined and successful as their parents are now gone.
When we left out beloved home to these murderous thugs we had what is now a prophetic quip;
"Come and see the Zimbabwe Ruins today and the Ruins of Zimbabwe tomorrow"
We weren't wrong.
Life goes on in Zimbabwe whether you like it or not. Having been to Zimbabwe its not in ruins. The shine is still shining and the people still smile. There are lots of problems but there is also optimisism. You are the one missing out!
It will take a miracle to save this country and it won't be found in the lazy, demotivated mob that now populates this place.
So whats your solution to that? Would you rather have Mugabe in power then? What exactly is your point?
The country is in a worse state than some countries that have been defeated in a major conflict. There is nothing left in terms of either infrastructure or the economy.
Again whats your point?
, everyone knows that alreadyLook at the calibre of the people in the MDC. Their leader is a former Mine foreman and I have seen nothing behind him that gives any kind of confidence that these people can reform the system so that it becomes a functioning state again. It will take some very talented economists to resurrect this one.
Change of government is better than nothing. The proof of the pudding is in the eating..
The people of Zimbabwe have been so brain-washed by their former communist masters that they will not take advise from any Western advisor.
Which people of Zimbabwe are you talking about? Please do not generalise because generalisations are never accurate
. What proof have you got regarding this? How many Zimbabweans have you done a survey on? Also what makes you so confident that advise will need to come from a Westerner?
My personal opinion is that this is the same car, different colour. Morgan is already rubbing his hands in glee at the hundreds of millions of pounds waiting to be transferred into his personal bank account.
Respect to the man, he has been in opposition for nearly ten years, he has been beaten up and harassed just for opposing the regime
. Would you have done that in his shoes?I am sure that the first thing he is going to do is buy some nice properties outside Zimbabwe. Some of the more enterprising whites and white collar criminals, in the mould of van Hoogstraaten, will already be getting down to work to ensure that they can provide the right channels to launder all this money.
He might or he might not. There is no evidence to suggest this so far.
A lot of this money is going to be channelled through the Taliban drug lords and then on to the streets of Britain, Europe and the USA. The profits to be made will be phenomenal. The loss of the brave troops from these countries trying to combat this is merely collateral damage. And in a few years time they will be getting Bob Geldorf to organise a special function in Europe to right off the debt.
Is that the plot for your fictitious novel?
If you think I am being overly pessimistic, watch this space. I was born and brought up there. I am of an age where I can remember how this country was built into what it was.
Yet you refer to "these people" throughout. Is it the us and them scenario?
The economic strength of the Rhodesia was built largely after WW2 by some very special people. They were mostly South African and British WW2 veterans and they were very skilled. They had developed special skills through the extreme events they went through during the War. They knew how to cope under extreme pressure and how to work very hard.
You omit to say that these very special people killed so many africans and denied the millions of those black zimbabweans their rights. They also practiced apatheid.
The application of sanctions following UDI merely accelerated this development. They turned the country from a primary economy into a secondary economy with very little assistance, through sheer genius and hard work.
Guess whose hard labour was used in developing the economy. Black africans!!
Everyone points out what a fantastic agricultural sector they had. The farmers were very good. This country is not a good place to farm except up in the North East. It is slightly too arid to be successful. That didn't stop these men they developed GM crops that were drought resistant.
Guess again whose labour was used to toil the land!!
This time was unique. Those men and women, and their son's and daughters who were as determined and successful as their parents are now gone.
When we left out beloved home to these murderous thugs we had what is now a prophetic quip;
"Come and see the Zimbabwe Ruins today and the Ruins of Zimbabwe tomorrow"
We weren't wrong.
Life goes on in Zimbabwe whether you like it or not. Having been to Zimbabwe its not in ruins. The shine is still shining and the people still smile. There are lots of problems but there is also optimisism. You are the one missing out!
It will take a miracle to save this country and it won't be found in the lazy, demotivated mob that now populates this place.
Last edited by Mitzyboy; Apr 2nd 2008 at 10:15 am. Reason: Please see posting rule 1
Apr 2nd 2008, 10:17 am
#3
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
You are right, TigerOC. And the idiotic superficial analysis on the BBC merely mystifies, rather than clarifies, the situation.
Apr 2nd 2008, 10:42 am
#5
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
Leigh of the Valley, I have sent you an email and you must contact me now before posting anywhere in the forums
Apr 2nd 2008, 10:59 am
#7
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 112
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
Amid all the euphoria surrounding the perceived victory of the MDC and the final exit of Mugabe and the influence of Zanu-PF, everyone has lost sight of what these people can actually deliver.
So whats your solution to that? Would you rather have Mugabe in power then? What exactly is your point?
So whats your solution to that? Would you rather have Mugabe in power then? What exactly is your point?
Change of government is better than nothing. The proof of the pudding is in the eating..
My personal opinion is that this is the same car, different colour. Morgan is already rubbing his hands in glee at the hundreds of millions of pounds waiting to be transferred into his personal bank account.
Respect to the man, he has been in opposition for nearly ten years, he has been beaten up and harassed just for opposing the regime . Would you have done that in his shoes?
Respect to the man, he has been in opposition for nearly ten years, he has been beaten up and harassed just for opposing the regime . Would you have done that in his shoes?
if i had been in his shoes I would have been outside the country digging up as much dirt as I could on Mugabe and ZANU-PF and presenting a case to the powers that could have changed things.
A lot of this money is going to be channelled through the Taliban drug lords and then on to the streets of Britain, Europe and the USA. The profits to be made will be phenomenal. The loss of the brave troops from these countries trying to combat this is merely collateral damage. And in a few years time they will be getting Bob Geldorf to organise a special function in Europe to right off the debt.
Is that the plot for your fictitious novel?
Is that the plot for your fictitious novel?
Everyone points out what a fantastic agricultural sector they had. The farmers were very good. This country is not a good place to farm except up in the North East. It is slightly too arid to be successful. That didn't stop these men they developed GM crops that were drought resistant.
Guess again whose labour was used to toil the land!!
Guess again whose labour was used to toil the land!!
Life goes on in Zimbabwe whether you like it or not. Having been to Zimbabwe its not in ruins. The shine is still shining and the people still smile. There are lots of problems but there is also optimisism. You are the one missing out!
If the country isn't in ruins why is there little or no food, fuel, electricity, work ...............
The sun shines and shines and shines and that does what except bake the barren earth even harder than it already is.
Yup, I am the one missing out alright to the tune of around quarter of a million pounds that is what this mismanagement has cost me personally. What I couldn't do with that kind of money now. And no the British Government is not going to compensate me for my loss.
Apr 2nd 2008, 11:15 am
#9
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
I have sent it to the email address in your profile, check your junk mail box, maybe it is there ... sent again anyway, I cant pm you as you have less than 4 posts
Apr 2nd 2008, 1:13 pm
#10
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
The people of Zimbabwe have been so brain-washed by their former communist masters that they will not take advise from any Western advisor.
If you think I am being overly pessimistic, watch this space. I was born and brought up there. I am of an age where I can remember how this country was built into what it was.
The economic strength of the Rhodesia was built largely after WW2 by some very special people. They were mostly South African and British WW2 veterans and they were very skilled. They had developed special skills through the extreme events they went through during the War. They knew how to cope under extreme pressure and how to work very hard.
The application of sanctions following UDI merely accelerated this development. They turned the country from a primary economy into a secondary economy with very little assistance, through sheer genius and hard work.
Everyone points out what a fantastic agricultural sector they had. The farmers were very good. This country is not a good place to farm except up in the North East. It is slightly too arid to be successful. That didn't stop these men they developed GM crops that were drought resistant.
This time was unique. Those men and women, and their son's and daughters who were as determined and successful as their parents are now gone.
When we left out beloved home to these murderous thugs we had what is now a prophetic quip;
"Come and see the Zimbabwe Ruins today and the Ruins of Zimbabwe tomorrow"
We weren't wrong.
It will take a miracle to save this country and it won't be found in the lazy, demotivated mob that now populates this place.
If you think I am being overly pessimistic, watch this space. I was born and brought up there. I am of an age where I can remember how this country was built into what it was.
The economic strength of the Rhodesia was built largely after WW2 by some very special people. They were mostly South African and British WW2 veterans and they were very skilled. They had developed special skills through the extreme events they went through during the War. They knew how to cope under extreme pressure and how to work very hard.
The application of sanctions following UDI merely accelerated this development. They turned the country from a primary economy into a secondary economy with very little assistance, through sheer genius and hard work.
Everyone points out what a fantastic agricultural sector they had. The farmers were very good. This country is not a good place to farm except up in the North East. It is slightly too arid to be successful. That didn't stop these men they developed GM crops that were drought resistant.
This time was unique. Those men and women, and their son's and daughters who were as determined and successful as their parents are now gone.
When we left out beloved home to these murderous thugs we had what is now a prophetic quip;
"Come and see the Zimbabwe Ruins today and the Ruins of Zimbabwe tomorrow"
We weren't wrong.
It will take a miracle to save this country and it won't be found in the lazy, demotivated mob that now populates this place.
The tiny minority of whites managed and controlled 90% of the country's usable land and had the blacks totally dependent on them for basic food.
Lets be honest they kept control using brutal force to keep the blacks in check and anyone who wants to be associated with this former regime based on brutality and racist genocide should be thoroughly ashamed.
I have news for you, slavery was abolished a long time ago, and this privilaged life you lived by the sacrifice of the blood of thousands of Africans is finished !!! Go and work for your privilages like everybody else and stop robbing and brutalising other nations just to satisfy your greedy selfish lust.
Why were you not screeming foul play when the disgusting system of apartheid was present in South Africa ?..... Millions of blacks living in squalor under one of the most disguting and shameful regimes in the history of mankind.
Why were you not screaming foul play when under the racist regime of Ian smith, the majority of blacks could not vote ? I suppose white minority supremist rule and values suit you to the T ?
Yeh, things were better for white Zimbabweans because they could do what they wanted unchecked, just like the former slave owners of America.
It is time to get rid of this plantation mentality and massa has to learn to operate on a level playing field. Whites have done very well out of Zimbabwe literally bleeding it dry of all assets and demorilising the black majority population.
This is just a small sad part in the history of Africa and lets hope Zimbabwe gets to where it should be a black country, ruled by someone who commands the majority of votes and has a genuine dersire for the betterment of all, not just a few white elite and a few corrupt officials who happen to be their puppets.
I know, the truth is hard to hear, especially when it shatters your romantic vision of what your forefathers were really getting up to in Zimbabwe.
Apr 2nd 2008, 1:34 pm
#11
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
Ian Smith was re-elected to Parliament as an RF member for Umzingwane in the 1962 general election, at which the RF won a slim majority and formed a government. He served as Minister of the Treasury under Prime Minister Winston Field. Field's failure to secure independence from Britain upon dissolution of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland in 1963 left many dissatisfied with his leadership and in April 1964 Smith deposed him.
Smith was staunchly opposed to the British government's insistence (see NIBMAR) that Rhodesia introduce majority rule before independence. Smith at one point stated that there would be no plans to bring Rhodesia under "black majority rule" in his lifetime, later adding, "or [my] children's." Smith later maintained in his memoirs that he was referring to black rule as it was in other African countries such as Ghana, Uganda, Tanzania, and Nigeria but a recording was played on the BBC World Service (on the day of his death) of Smith saying: "I don't believe in black majority rule ever, not in a thousand years".
Smith at the Bulawayo Farmers' Fair, Easter 1964.White minority rule originated in property and education qualifications for voting that were in place when the British government introduced self-government in 1923. Such qualifications were unexceptional by the standards of the 1920s and, although slightly modified over the years, they ensured a situation up to 1979 in which whites had 95% of the votes in national elections while they were never more than 5% of the population.
Smith and other white settler politicians argued there was nothing fundamentally racist about the electoral system in Rhodesia. They stated that improvements in black education and wealth would, over time, ensure a gradual move to majority rule. However, critics argued that the whole political arrangement in Rhodesia was intended to entrench economic and political privilege for whites.
During the early 1960s a black nationalist movement emerged in Rhodesia. That movement consisted of two main parties, both of which were militant and Marxist in ideology; the Zimbabwe African National Union (ZANU) and the Zimbabwe African People's Union (ZAPU). ZANU, supported primarily by the Shona people, came to be led by Robert Mugabe. Joshua Nkomo led ZAPU, supported primarily by the Sindebele speaking minority. In his autobiography Smith says he opposed ZANU and ZAPU because of their Communist ideology.
Very soon after he became Prime Minister, he imprisoned the entire leadership of the black nationalist movement.[2]
Yeh things were great !!!!!!
Smith was staunchly opposed to the British government's insistence (see NIBMAR) that Rhodesia introduce majority rule before independence. Smith at one point stated that there would be no plans to bring Rhodesia under "black majority rule" in his lifetime, later adding, "or [my] children's." Smith later maintained in his memoirs that he was referring to black rule as it was in other African countries such as Ghana, Uganda, Tanzania, and Nigeria but a recording was played on the BBC World Service (on the day of his death) of Smith saying: "I don't believe in black majority rule ever, not in a thousand years".
Smith at the Bulawayo Farmers' Fair, Easter 1964.White minority rule originated in property and education qualifications for voting that were in place when the British government introduced self-government in 1923. Such qualifications were unexceptional by the standards of the 1920s and, although slightly modified over the years, they ensured a situation up to 1979 in which whites had 95% of the votes in national elections while they were never more than 5% of the population.
Smith and other white settler politicians argued there was nothing fundamentally racist about the electoral system in Rhodesia. They stated that improvements in black education and wealth would, over time, ensure a gradual move to majority rule. However, critics argued that the whole political arrangement in Rhodesia was intended to entrench economic and political privilege for whites.
During the early 1960s a black nationalist movement emerged in Rhodesia. That movement consisted of two main parties, both of which were militant and Marxist in ideology; the Zimbabwe African National Union (ZANU) and the Zimbabwe African People's Union (ZAPU). ZANU, supported primarily by the Shona people, came to be led by Robert Mugabe. Joshua Nkomo led ZAPU, supported primarily by the Sindebele speaking minority. In his autobiography Smith says he opposed ZANU and ZAPU because of their Communist ideology.
Very soon after he became Prime Minister, he imprisoned the entire leadership of the black nationalist movement.[2]
Yeh things were great !!!!!!
Apr 2nd 2008, 1:57 pm
#15
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: Zimbabwe - what future??
Thats right Pablo, we should give thanks these atrocities and wicked people are well documented, don't you agree ?
Don't you also agree that this regime along with apartheid was disgusting and shameful ?...... I am sure you do, don't you ?
Don't you also agree that this regime along with apartheid was disgusting and shameful ?...... I am sure you do, don't you ?
