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South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Old Dec 24th 2007, 9:14 am
  #16  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
Are you suggesting that violent crime doesn't happen in the UK?
No I'm not suggesting that crime doesn't happen in the UK, or in Switzerland, or in Shangri-La. But beware you don't fall into the moronic ANC rhetoric of trying to claim that, because crime happens everywhere, therefore crime is not a problem, and not far worse, in SA.

Crime in the UK is miniscule compared with SA.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 9:40 am
  #17  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

It's Africa, NOT the UK. - If you want the UK then that's where you live, but if you don't, then you go elsewhere.......... My point is that Africa is Africa, NOT the UK. Of course there's crime here, but a huge amount depends on where you live. Jo'burg has high crime rates as do some other parts of SA and elswhere - BUT if you choose the right area to live and act responsibly, then it's reasonably safe.

I actually know more people in SA who have been killed by Elephants than have been victims of violent crime...... and not many people get killed by Elephants in SA.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 9:48 am
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
My point is that Africa is Africa, NOT the UK
Quite right, Africa is not the UK.

BUT if you choose the right area to live and act responsibly, then it's reasonably safe.
We have been over this old chestnut so many times on this list. No one disputes that if you choose the wrong area, and act irresponsibly, then it's less safe than if you choose the right area and act responsibly, nor does anyone dispute that if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time then it's just too bad.

I actually know more people in SA who have been killed by Elephants than have been victims of violent crime...... and not many people get killed by Elephants in SA.
I can't really comment on your circle of acquaintances.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 9:54 am
  #19  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Shakari:
I actually know more people in SA who have been killed by Elephants than have been victims of violent crime...... and not many people get killed by Elephants in SA."

Really? Shakari?? I wish I could say the same.
And yes, I agree that the major action in White River is when everyone goes down to Georges Cafe on a Saturday night to watch the Polony slicer in action.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 10:19 am
  #20  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
Are you suggesting that violent crime doesn't happen in the UK? - What about the gun crime, gang murders & armed crime that happens in the UK?. - Just a few days ago a child was shot and killed on a private estate over there....... not even on an inner city estate!

Crime happens everywhere and anyone who denies it is a fool. - One of the the best ways to avoid crime anywhere in the world, is to think and behave defensively. Don't go to ATMs at night or quiet locations, drive with your car doors locked, be careful where you stop and most of all be aware of your surroundings, assess dangers and take appropriate action where necessary to avoid trouble.
There were a total of 765 homicide offences recorded in 2005/06, a decrease of twelve per cent compared to the previous year. The figure of 765 includes 52 homicide victims of the 7 July London bombings.

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page40.asp


I can't remember the last time that 30 murders happened in a weekend, and the police reporting it as "fairly quiet" [any edition of the Sowetan ].

There were 765 murders in the UK in 2005/2006.

Can you honestly compare that to the 30,000 murders that are committed in SA every year?

There must be a helluva lot more elephants in SA than there used to be.

The UK has problems, yes, but we are a bunch of amateurs compared to the criminals in SA.

Last edited by 1066; Dec 24th 2007 at 10:23 am.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 12:18 pm
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

You guys seem to be trying to turn this into a pissing contest for some reason.

My point is quite simply that most of SA isn't as dangerous as you seem to think. Sure there's crime, but the vast majority of it is in the major cities and townships etc. Certainly in my neck of the woods here, it's considerably safer than many parts of the UK, and far safer with considerably less crime than Reading in Berkshire where I last lived. - Add on the fact that the SA lifestyle is considerably better than the UK and I'm more than happy to stay.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 12:41 pm
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
You guys seem to be trying to turn this into a pissing contest for some reason.

My point is quite simply that most of SA isn't as dangerous as you seem to think. Sure there's crime, but the vast majority of it is in the major cities and townships etc. Certainly in my neck of the woods here, it's considerably safer than many parts of the UK, and far safer with considerably less crime than Reading in Berkshire where I last lived. - Add on the fact that the SA lifestyle is considerably better than the UK and I'm more than happy to stay.
Population of Reading UK is about 150,000. Population of White River SA is about 1000, if that. Where there are no people there is no crime, as you seem to be saying. So see? We agree.

The reason the crime occurs in the population centres is that is where the population is. In a city the size of Reading in South Africa, there would be more crime than there is in Reading. In a village in the UK the size of White River, there would be less crime.

I don't think anyone is trying to question your desire to stay where you are. I certainly don't blame you. Reading is rather dull, after all. To my mind, endless safaris are rather dull too, but that's just me.

And if you're able to get by with the insecurity of not having legal status in the country, then it's quite an adventure for you.

Last edited by Pablo; Dec 24th 2007 at 12:43 pm.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 12:44 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
You guys seem to be trying to turn this into a pissing contest for some reason.

My point is quite simply that most of SA isn't as dangerous as you seem to think. Sure there's crime, but the vast majority of it is in the major cities and townships etc. Certainly in my neck of the woods here, it's considerably safer than many parts of the UK, and far safer with considerably less crime than Reading in Berkshire where I last lived. - Add on the fact that the SA lifestyle is considerably better than the UK and I'm more than happy to stay.
I got to add that the street crime in UK is of a more violent/calculated style than the opportunists on the streets in SA...

We've been back here in UK since 2003 and my son (19) who's never been involved in any incident all his years in SA has on one occasion been punched in the face for no reason (Brighton) and last night was stopped by a thug in a passing car asking 'for a fag' when the boys told him thye didn't smoke he pulled out and threatened them with a Hammer!!!!

Majority of street crime in SA can be avoided if you remain alert and be careful of where you park/go etc I know what Shakari is talking about...


Uk Thugs put a lot more aggression/hate into their attacks and too me one of their encounters is far more scary than some SA street kid trying to snatch you handbag/phone....

Just my experience....
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 12:59 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by Pablo
Population of Reading UK is about 150,000. Population of White River SA is about 1000, if that. Where there are no people there is no crime, as you seem to be saying. So see? We agree.

The reason the crime occurs in the population centres is that is where the population is. In a city the size of Reading in South Africa, there would be more crime than there is in Reading. In a village in the UK the size of White River, there would be less crime.

I don't think anyone is trying to question your desire to stay where you are. I certainly don't blame you. Reading is rather dull, after all. To my mind, endless safaris are rather dull too, but that's just me.

And if you're able to get by with the insecurity of not having legal status in the country, then it's quite an adventure for you.
Don't know when you were last in White River, but its population is a LOT more than 1000!
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 1:01 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by Heartfm
I got to add that the street crime in UK is of a more violent/calculated style than the opportunists on the streets in SA...

Uk Thugs put a lot more aggression/hate into their attacks and too me one of their encounters is far more scary than some SA street kid trying to snatch you handbag/phone....
Of course, if the crime problem in SA were limited to a few harmless street kids snatching the occasional bag or phone there wouldn't be much of a problem. I think those who go on about crime are more exercised by the home invasions and rapes, murders, etc, the shootings and so on.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Pablo,

WTF is it with you that no-one is allowed to express an opinion unless it agrees with yours? I've only just signed up here and have already realised that you seem to regard yourself as a member of the internet secret police.

Sure there is crime in SA - but like I said, it happens everywhere. Sky News has just broadcast a piece saying something like half the churches in the UK won't be open for midnight mass this year, because the keyholders are so concerned about people being mugged and/or attacked on their way home. While the reporter was doing the piece, the wall in the background was covered in obscene graffiti.

You can be sure 100% of the churches here in White River and indeed the bustling metropolis of Nelspruit will be open tonight and you can also be sure of not finding a single piece of graffiti in either town.

As for your snide remark about what I do for a living, WTF has that got to do with this topic AND what has it got to do with you.

I thought this site was for the friendly exchange of information to help fellow ex pats and potential ex pats...... Hell, if I wanted an argument, I'd have gone to see my ex wife.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 2:45 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
Pablo,

Sure there is crime in SA - but like I said, it happens everywhere. That statement is almost the HCR logo. Please tell that to my nephew who was shot whilst buying a curry, or my dear friend whose daughter just happened to come home at the wrong time to find herself in the middle of a robbery at her home. They decided to gang rape her and that took place in Klerksdorp. Not exactly a metropolis. The story of crime happens everywhere simply does not wash, and the percentage of South Africans that have left the country in search of a safer environment speaks volumes about the crime issue.

I thought this site was for the friendly exchange of information to help fellow ex pats and potential ex pats...... Hell, if I wanted an argument, I'd have gone to see my ex wife.
Please do not glibly blow off an issue that seriously affects the lives of people who only want to go about the business of living. That comment about acting responsibly and living in a secured area comment is offensive. That implies that those who have been affected were somehow reckless. As someone with very deep connections personally and professionally (armed response) throughout South Africa, I can assure you that your perception may be a little skewered. Nothing would make me and mine happier than to have a turnabout in this issue that has affected so many people. It needs to be addressed and people need to understand the risks. Yes, it's Africa, but that simply does not justify what is happening.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 3:07 pm
  #28  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Please do not glibly blow off an issue that seriously affects the lives of people who only want to go about the business of living. That comment about acting responsibly and living in a secured area comment is offensive. That implies that those who have been affected were somehow reckless. As someone with very deep connections personally and professionally (armed response) throughout South Africa, I can assure you that your perception may be a little skewered. Nothing would make me and mine happier than to have a turnabout in this issue that has affected so many people. It needs to be addressed and people need to understand the risks. Yes, it's Africa, but that simply does not justify what is happening.

I'm sorry, I don't see how my comment about acting responsibly is is offensive. - perhaps you could explain why it offends you? - Acting responsibly and cautiously is a perfectly normal 'standard operating procedure' to keep yourself safe anywhere in the world, not just in Africa.

Regarding your last comment, I appreciate that crime is always wrong, but my point is that Africa never has been and never will be, a hot version of the UK..... and I thank God for that. Of course, I'd personally prefer the place to be crime free and I'd personally like to see the death penalty reintroduced for murder...... but that ain't gonna happen. I'll accept Africa for what it is, warts and all.

I'm also confused about who is what here. I note that at least two people in this thread don't have much on their profile. I guess I don't either, but perhaps both you and Pablo could tell me if you're ex pat Brits living in SA or if not, quite what your situation is...... then I might be able to better understand your opinions etc.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 3:11 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
Pablo,

WTF is it with you that no-one is allowed to express an opinion unless it agrees with yours?
Yet I agreed with yours, so I don't know what you mean.

Sure there is crime in SA - but like I said, it happens everywhere.
And I agreed with that, remember?

As for your snide remark about what I do for a living, WTF has that got to do with this topic AND what has it got to do with you.
I have not made any comment on what you do for a living.
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Old Dec 24th 2007, 3:34 pm
  #30  
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Default Re: South Africa is now to dangerous to live.

Originally Posted by shakari
Please do not glibly blow off an issue that seriously affects the lives of people who only want to go about the business of living. That comment about acting responsibly and living in a secured area comment is offensive. That implies that those who have been affected were somehow reckless. As someone with very deep connections personally and professionally (armed response) throughout South Africa, I can assure you that your perception may be a little skewered. Nothing would make me and mine happier than to have a turnabout in this issue that has affected so many people. It needs to be addressed and people need to understand the risks. Yes, it's Africa, but that simply does not justify what is happening.

I'm sorry, I don't see how my comment about acting responsibly is is offensive. - perhaps you could explain why it offends you? - Acting responsibly and cautiously is a perfectly normal 'standard operating procedure' to keep yourself safe anywhere in the world, not just in Africa. It is a perfectly normal operating system, but you are misleading people by implying that this is sufficient to avoid getting in harm's way. Also suggests that if an event occured, it was somehow your own recklessness that opened the door of opportunity. Some people just had the distinct misfortune of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. One example is being home during a robbery......

Regarding your last comment, I appreciate that crime is always wrong, but my point is that Africa never has been and never will be, a hot version of the UK..... and I thank God for that. I don't recall anyone here looking for a "hot version of the UK" Very interesting comment and as such am able to see where this is going. Of course, I'd personally prefer the place to be crime free and I'd personally like to see the death penalty reintroduced for murder...... but that ain't gonna happen. I'll accept Africa for what it is, warts and all. All well and good, but maybe some of those warts are just too much for other citizens, and perhaps a heads up to those contemplating a move there should at least be entitled to know and ponder thosee warts before making the move.

I'm also confused about who is what here. I note that at least two people in this thread don't have much on their profile. I guess I don't either, but perhaps both you and Pablo could tell me if you're ex pat Brits living in SA or if not, quite what your situation is...... then I might be able to better understand your opinions etc.
Please read the intro thread and you will get some of the answers you are looking for. My connections to SA are significant. A few people on this site actually know who I am, and that is as far as I care to share on a WWW. I grew up in Africa, and I travel back on regular basis for family and business.

Last edited by Tegwyn; Dec 24th 2007 at 3:37 pm.
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