Rick b

No, most on here from what I can see just think you are an idiot.

Sue

Please remember everyone has a different experience of the places they have lived or currently live. Just because a person does not share your opinion it doesn't mean their point of view is not as valid as yours. So can you please be more careful how you word your posts as they seem to be taking on a judgmental and bullying tone and I am sure that is not your intention

Campbells

Oh please ……..

Who’s the bully. Why did I answer the thread?

Please ……….


Utter crap. You have no idea mate and are trying to soften the violent situation in SA. Simple…


I think on a R15 k salary the banks lending money to buy a house take into account tax, cost of living etc etc so about a R3 k save on that, maybe ?


Prove it

So how would you know, you don’t live in South Africa ? Bottom line all your blah is just what you have heard from sources.

Rick b

Thank you. Hopefully now posters will not be chased away for much longer.

You answered it to give out your negative rubbish again. You didn't answer it to help someone asking a sincere and valid question.

What in the sentance you quoted is "Utter crap"? I have never deviated (look it up) from saying South Africa does have a high crime rate - but it is not to the extent you make it out to be and not everyone living there is going to get raped and get HIV.

Thankfully not many believe you, the problem as I have said all along is your arrogant bullying which is a disgrace as you give no other opinons any time.

You lied in your first two words.

As would obviously never bother to go there and find out, why don't you go to the internet sites of banks in SA and have a look.

Dear Oh dear. You are the one that said it. I am asking you to back up your assertion. Or can't you?

Does your first line not strike you as a bit ironic considering you live in New Zealand? But well done for trying.

Campbells

I have lived in SA for over 20 years & you haven't ever lived there.

Rick b

I think you meant to say "did live" or "had lived". As in past tense. As in it's your past - you didn't like it - doesn't mean you have to put off anothers future.

I have already said I have spent time there with friends and know none of them make it out to be the war zone you do. Whilst they know there is a crime problem - they also know much of the crime is in specific area's. Something you constantly ignore. Seriously, shouldn't you be having sleep time with your wife or something?

kevinhenator

Maybe your friends tell you what you want to hear? I live in South Africa, have all my life, and while I wont bother posting stats, i can tell you that as a father and husband I do have a constant "knot" in my stomach. I dont want to live like this, dont want my family to live like this. Horses for courses I suppose, but until I get banned for posting my views of this failing country, I will continue to post - even if I am lucky enough to leave (surely it would be worse to feel strongly about SA, then once gone not continue to contribute to forums like this? maybe i'm wrong...)

Rick b

Tell me what I want to hear? I have a house in Harare. They and I know full well about living in Africa. They would certainly not tell me what I want to hear!!

Look, I started this not to suggest that people should not tell the negatives of moving to South Africa. Far from it. Some people do have rosy tinted specs and are completly unaware that any danger lurks in any country. BUT - this is a forum where people who are seriously considering what would be one of their most important decisions, are asking questions. There is no need for them to be patronised, called stupid, be bullied and for all intents and purpose be chased off the forum. Can you understand what I am getting at?

No-one feels able to say anything good about SA because of the response they get from Campbells.

If as a resident you are showing the negative side - fine. But lets face it, you know the truth as much as anyone else - there are good points about living in SA and Campbell is completly dis-proportionate towards the negative side.

There is a huge gap between "feeling strongly" and the tone of Campbells posts.

Pablo

No Kevin, you are not wrong, but there is a vast difference in tone between your posts and Campbell's.

Pablo

Tegwyn

What I have seen in Campbell's writing is what I have witnessed of the South African population at large - aggression! A lot of that comes from the Joburg area as well. I recall eons ago when we first settled in Canada I was asked on many an occasion "where's the fire"? Did not understand what people were trying to convey to me. It took a good number of years later returning on holiday to finally comprehend what was obvious to others. I'm a chilled out, very laid back madame now!

The last time I was back, just over 9 months ago, I became very aware of the tension and agitated aggression which was quite an eye opener. Sadly a sign of the times. I know there are still some relatively safe areas one can enjoy but if anything , it highlights the fact that looks can be deceiving. I'm always happy to hear that someone went across to that beautiful country and came out the other side with good memories.

Campbell, seriously man. You are losing your audience with your hostile response. Perhaps you don't see it but others do. It is not an attack, but perhaps a tip to let you know how you are interacting with others. You come across as very angry, and probably have a right to be. That energy is being misdirected at those that do not have any responsibility for what is happening in S.A.

Many people need to experience things for themselves. So be it, but offer input without the verbal assault. May they go there, have a good time with eyes opened to the possibilities of what may happen and leave it at that.

Why don't you join the Mail & Guardian expat forum where you can thrash out the S.A. issues of the day. There are many there that vent their spleen which probably helps them work through their own issues and pain.

Best wishes, Tegs.

Pablo

You are so right, Tegwyn. I love talking to South Africans, or people that have actually spent time living in SA, because you certainly can't talk to the local Brits here about Africa. They haven't a clue.

But, among those of my friends who are still living in SA, I notice more and more a kind of frenzied insanity. I suppose that's what living under constant stress does to people.

Yes, some people can cope with living like that, but many can't. It's a helter-skelter, and most people don't want that sort of life.

Leaving SA is hard, especially when one feels one has been forced to go and leave behind everything one has worked for. I myself left for reasons wholly unrelated to the crime or politics, but on my visits back, after having lived a "normal" life for a while, I noticed all those little things you have to do to live safely in Jo'burg - lock all your car doors (of course); walk your friends to their cars after a meal out in case they are jumped on between the restaurant and the car; constantly keep an eye in your car mirror for who is driving behind you, or who is driving in front of you, and so on. And then there's the bumps in the night that make you wake up staring into the darkness, and all the double-checking of your door locks at home, and the times the alarm goes off by accident....

Last time I was in Jo'burg a friend of mine who still lives there told me how her brother had just been hijacked for the 2nd time, and, mercifully, not killed. Another friend of mine, who lives near Port Shepstone, has a house rigged up with some many laser alarms that it is like something in Mission Impossible, and he sleeps with a loaded gun by the bed (the place is semi-rural). He's finally giving up and going to NZ. Sad. But he's over sixty now, and the stress gets harder to cope with as you get older.

That's not to say SA can't be fun. It can. Especially after hyper-controlled places like the UK. In Africa you are your own master in many ways, for good or ill. No safety nets there. No nanny state. But potential emigrants to SA shouldn't kid themselves they're just going to another version of Australia or New Zealand or France or whatever. It's a whole different ball game, and it seems to me it's only when you're there that some of the uncomfortable truths sink in.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Pablo

TouristTrap

Well put.

I'll repeat this again.

There are various stages to the emigration process out of a country such as South Africa where most of us left not truly of our own free will, but because we were forced to due to the reality of the crime situation (the vast majority anyway).

One of them is the anger stage, which often strikes years after you left. Tegwyn knew me when I was going through that stage years ago

As Tegs said, South Africans are extremely aggressive - they have to be on 24 hour 'military alert' if they want to survive. There is just no other option. It is a subconscious thing with them - they don't even realize it until they leave. It takes a few months to a year to get rid of this underlying stress and become 'normal'.

My husband is away on business at the moment. Last night there was a noise outside my window. I didn't even bother getting up. If this had happened in S.A., I would have broken out in cold sweats, awoken my children, had my gun at the ready, probably have pressed the panic alarm to call help. People don't sleep properly over there. They sleep with 'one eye open', because there is a very REAL chance that they will be attacked in their home. It is not paranoia. It is reality.

I recall watching a documentary regarding the S.A. crime situation a few years ago. They interviewed a group of British girls who were there on holiday and the girls were laughing and calling South Africans paranoid for having gates between their bedrooms and their lounges.

I remember thinking, girls, just be thankful that you are leaving for the UK soon and don't have to live in a prison, like the people they were mocking. Who in their right mind wants to live in a prison-like fortress? There must be a reason why people live like that. They don't do it out of 'perhaps'. They do it because they are living in the midst of a war zone - only it hasn't been named that. There is a very real war going on in S.A.

Tegwyn

I remember those days well TT. I too had my days of rage especially when losing some very special people to senseless crime. It's difficult to talk to people who can not relate and those expat site were really helpful. Venting my spleen back then was very cathartic for me and as time goes by, even with continuing events with family still there, I don't feel that rage anymore. You do get past it. You have to or you can't move on.

HOBSON1840

You are so right - I moved to New Zealand 20 months ago and I am also extremely chilled. My mother came to visit in December and after a couple of weeks she was also chilled. I just think that we have faaaaar less to worry about

Campbells

Mugabe also doesn’t believe his country has a problem whilst it has 80% unemployment and 1700% inflation. So if some of Mugabe’s cronies got on here posting that there is no problem there would that make it valid information.

I wish you a safe business trip to Zimbabwe in June.

The concept of a forum such as this is for people to offer their opinion and this is what I have done and will continue to do.