Pablo

I'm afraid that is not a feeling I share.

Thing is, it is your education that teaches you what to make of it. Before you have that, you're at sea.

Well I congratulate you. But I don't think possessing a degree is necessarily the same thing as possessing an education. That was my point earlier.

Well you have *asserted* that there are good state schools out there, and I think you're probably right. Many Grammar schools, after all, are still within the state sector, in spite of the efforts of New Labour and its predecessors. Far too many state schools, though, seem more interested in social engineering and setting 'inclusion' over excellence. Did your school offer Latin? Classical Greek? These subjects, which once formed the core of a proper education, have been driven out by the philistines and politicoes - on the absurd grounds that anything difficult must be 'elitist'. Similarly - dare I say it - things like spelling and grammar are no longer considered important.

ForeignGal

What I like about schools like Eton and Winchster is the fact they have so many societies which have famous speakers i.e. Eminent world politicians, noble prize winners, famous scientists etc... and the boys learn so much about life. I have never seen a state school where boys walk down the street with a newspaper under one arm! And they're not exam factories either, Winchester doesn't even sit GCSE's because they think they stifle lateral thinking. What really bothers me now in Britain is that you have to pay just so your children will lean to be well-mannered, disciplined, respectful and have high expectations - a fundametal human right in my book. Don't get me wrong, my mother instilled these values in me but I was bullied for being all of the above and eventually conformed to peer pressure.

Leigh of the Valley

I do not know much about the South african schools in question so cannot hazard any advice. Good on you though for wanting the best for your kids and actively pursuing it. Wish all parents were like that!

TigerOC

ForeignGal The most important thing to consider before making a decision about schooling in SA would be "will the final exams written be accepted as an entry qualification to a 1st World University".

I have absolutely no doubt that the schools listed will provide your kids with the type of education that they need. The downside is that they will not develop the kind of contacts that they achieve in the UK if they decide that they wish to continue living and working in the UK. What is more fundamental is that having been to school in SA they will need to enrol in tertiary education in the West. If their qualification doesn't enable them to get entry then they are going to have to repeat at least their last 2 years again to gain entry.

I can speak from personal experience as I have a SA Pharmacy degree and post graduate specialisation qualification and neither is recognised in the UK. This is not because my degree is substandard but because I am being penalised because I obtained the degree during the apartheid era. I did my internship with a British graduate and my supervisor was a British graduate and my South African degree was certainly more extensive and required more credits than my British counterparts. What I am saying is look carefully at the long term implications of being a South African school leaver.

ForeignGal

That's very interesting TigerOC. I know that RSA schools finish a year earlier than british schools and my son is also one year ahead chronologicallly so this may not be a problem. I also know that bishops offer a one year post-matric British A'level course, but I will look into all of these things. Maybe the best of both worlds will be to spend 4 years in RSA and finish his sixth form in the UK -then he can go to Eton and Hilton and make double the contacts.

TigerOC

I was educated in the then Rhodesia and went to 'varsity in South Africa with 2 British A levels and 5 M levels. The South African students never did pure sciences (Physics, chemistry etc) and I was in the middle of my second year Chem A before they had caught up with what we did in A levels. I know some of the private schools in South Africa have switched to British based external exams.

As a note there are/were University degrees in South Africa that were World class. I was at Rhodes and the Chemistry Dept was a World Leader and had one Nobel prize and 4 nominations. There were more post grad students in that department than under grads. The same applied to Physics at Rhodes in the '70's where the Prof was a leading expert in the ionosphere and a technical consultant to NASA for space craft re-entry. Other degrees from Rhodes weren't worth the paper they were printed on. This applies to many universities and worth investigating as not all degrees are equal.

I know that the Medical & Dental council of South Africa was registering Doctors based on the origin of their degree as opposed to country of origin which is a good method.

whalewatcher

If my memory serves Bishops got into the papers with a nasty spate of bullying a few years back. A reputation for being old-fashioned, but not in good ways.

I also recall more recently a gang of Bishops boys beat up someone at a petrol station in Claremont, leaving him wheelchair-bound. An unprovoked and vicious attack by private school thugs. The sort of act which would give a Daily Mail reader an aneurysm if committed on a British council estate.

HugoB

Hi FG, Mr HugoB here, (using the wife's login)

I lived in RSA (Durban) from 1975-1995 and was educated at Michaelhouse. I have since immigrated twice, once to the UK and I lived there from 95-2006, and I now reside in WA, Australia.

I think there have been many excellent points made by many members and most of which I agree with. I am going to focus on the schools, which is why you posted here really isnt it?

Michaelhouse and Hilton are schools which I have firsthand knowledge of, they are, in my honest opinion two of the top 5 private schools in South Africa, if not the two best. There are a few other good ones such as Kearsney and all are within 90 mins of Durban airport.

Bullying wise - Michaelhouse has a robust policy and I have seen boys expelled if caught. I am sure they have'nt weakened on that one.

Security wise - Michaelhouse employed a force of security guards who guard the gates 24/7 and patrol the grounds at night. It was certainly during my time, a 100% secure and safe area to be day or night. Again I am sure things have got tighter, and I am sure the boys will be even safer than when I went.

Academic education wise - You can imagine the teachers will be amongst the best in the country. As far as international recognition well I would ask at the school, many old boys I went to school with are flung as far across the globe as you can imagine. Name a country, and there's probably an Old Boys Club there somewhere. I am sure none of them found a South African Education a handicap. Michaelhouse was offering UK "A" Levels in 1987 as a 6th form education.

Extra curricular wise - well I reckon Michaelhouse provided me with more exposure to the arts, sports, cultural societies and clubs than I would have received anywhere else.

I believe that a private boarding school like Hilton or Michaelhouse will turn your boys into fine independent young men and prepare them for their lives ahead with a fully rounded education.

And for those who are worried your boys will like SA and stay there after they finish school, well that’s a risk, but your boys are yours and they will always gravitate to their parents, as I did.

To use a corny analogy, why would you teach them to fly, and then never let them out of the cage?

Lastly I would leave you with this, what do the boys want? Show them what the school(s) has/have to offer and as long as the boys want to go they will love it.

My folks never wanted me to go, but I insisted, I wanted to go and I had a ball.

HugoB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaelhouse

google is your friend!

ForeignGal

Hi HugoB,

I have heard that Michaelhouse is a fantastic school too, however my husband has decided that if we opt for one of these schools he wants it to offer something that the UK schools cannot. With that in mind ,Hilton obviously has vast land with many unusual mammals, and a specialist wildlife programme - does Michaelhouse offer the same or something different? Do you think Michaelhouse boys are different or have a differing outlook on life compared to Hilton, and if so in which way? Lastly, how to the boys view foreigners and how do non-sporty, highly intelligent boys (geeks!) fit in at these schools - unpopular or respected as an individual? Thanks again for the first hand info!

HugoB

I reckon a call to the school, or a vist will answer most of those questions above.. Michaelhouse has 600 acres of its own land plus acess to most, if not all, of the surrounding farms. They actively promote conservation and when I was there 20 years ago, spent a week out sleeping out in the bush on a game reserve learning about conservation. Now you can imagine how much their conservation teacings have improved over 20 years!

If you have already made your mind up to send them to South Africa and its a matter of Hilton vs Michaelhouse vs Bishops vs KES vs Kearsney etc etc then the best thing you can do is get everyone onto a plane and go and see them. See what school suits your boys, and what school your boys like the look of.

These top schools are, in my opinion, like comparing a Ferrari with a Lamborghini with a Porsche, when you have narrowed it down to those types of schools then the final decider won't really matter too much in the long run.

As far as whether Michaelhouse boys are different to Hilton, I have heard it said that quieter boys might be sent to Michaelhouse to help them out of their shell, and wilder boys might be sent to Hilton to put some calm and discipline into them. But to be honest I doubt there is much between them. They are both exceptional schools producing well rounded young men.

Remember I went there 20 years ago, but even back then academics were respected, perhaps not quite as much as if they were on the 1st XV rugby team AND a straight A student, but hey thats life, you can't wrap them in cotton wool. They will find their own path.

Daxk

Hilton boys were wankers, every last one of them.

Daxk

"Digs a slit trench!!!

ForeignGal

sounds like you might be one

Daxk

Never, Hilton does produce well rounded men, usually about 20 kilo's too rounded. St Annes girls would agree with my summation.