italyexpat

By the way Pablo I never made any of the statements you attribute to me.
I never said it's like any other country. I said "Cape Town is not like any other city in that it's not built up". I have never said there is no crime, I have merely presented my experience OK.

ForeignGal

So in all your opinions, lets say we have the £100k per year only to send the boys to Eton, but we can't afford to buy a house and live fairly meagerly. Do we send them to this school or spend £35k per annum sending them to Bishops/Hilton and have plenty money to own a house in the UK? We will send them to top boarding schools as we have always struggled to put them through private school and they would get eaten alive in the british comp system. Some may not agree with our choices to go all out for this elitist education but we will do it so what would you choose?

I just wanted to add what a breath of fresh air to find that South Africans don't criticise you for wanting the best. In British culture you're not allowed to be bright, talented or rich, and even if you came from a lowly background you are looked down on for working ridiculously hard and aspiring for much better opportunities.

italyexpat

I couldn't have said it better myself! Enjoy a fact-finding break in cape town and good luck with whatever decision you make

Pablo

Alas the levellers and race-hustlers and second-rate theorists and Projectors and social engineers are busy in South Africa too.

Don't run down British culture too much. There is far too much vulgarity and democratization of value. But there is still high culture here, and there are centres of excellence.

I honour you for valuing education. Few do, nowadays, it seems.

TigerOC

We all come from a society that rewards and actively encourages everyone to do well and most people will go out of their way to ensure that people with talent make the most of their skills.

I personally find Britain very stifling in that almost every avenue is protected by gate-keepers that ensure that top jobs are awarded only to "old boys". Perhaps people like Alan Sugar and Richard Branson may change this. Such attitudes are certainly limiting the growth of the UK economy in the long term when you look at countries like Japan and China and their very high quality graduate ratios.

Pugsy

I totally understand wanting the best for your children, we have 3 all in private school in Spain. There is a boarding house, but it's not for us and we live close to the school. As a South African I prefer to keep a big distance between myself, my kids and SA. I do not want them growing up reading the local papers and watching the news of the horrors that go on there. But if the boarders are as closeted as some posters say they are, I suppose they will be shielded from the bad stuff and will have a great experience.

Personally (only because you are asking for opinions) if it was me: I would not have my children board in such a far away country. I would need them closer to me. In your situation, I'd scrap boarding altogether and use the extra money to buy a house closer to a top notch private day school (and hire a super nanny if I needed to travel)OR I'd go all out for British boarding. It would give me peace of mind to be close in an emergency. Plus special events, birthdays, illness even... Peace of mind over the money, I guess, plus you'd see them more often (if you wanted too, of course!.

ForeignGal

TigerOC - I had such humble beginnings and this is why we want a top education because of "the old boys" who get jobs. My husband sees it all of the time in his work - its not right but at the moment if you can't beat them etc...Don't be fooled by Sir Richard Branson however as he was educated at Stowe - one of the most expensive schools in the country! The media like to put their spin on things if it suits them!

Pablo

On balance, Pugsy, I'd say I agree with your advice.

(BTW, I know Sotogrande well. I assume you're talking about the good English school there.)

ForeignGal

This is exactly how my Hubby feels so I better not let him see this post!

Pugsy

Yeah, sleepy Sotogrande. It reminds me of the SA I grew up in actually, the big wide streets, gorgeous houses, high walls everywhere (but no razor wire!). It's very quiet though, but so safe and close to the UK too. It takes a while to get used to the education here, because as opposed to the UK, the primary kids are pushed and tested alot less. So you kind of think they're not learning anything! But in secondary the IB program is very demanding. It's accepted worldwide and most of the graduates go on to Uni. in their respective home countries. Some getting into Ivy Leagues US side and Oxford and such like.

To foreigngirl, it's a toughie; but I'm sure whatever you decide, it'll be a good choice.

fa0019

Whilst I understand that each individual case is different and some areas are not blessed with great schools but I would disagree that going to private school in the UK is the defining factor is a person's success.

I myself went to comprehensive school in the UK and have gone on to forge a successful career in investment banking...there is hope and I'm not a exception.

I myself am currently in the process of moving to Cape Town with my partner (a native Afrikaner) and one of the biggest dilemmas has been security... for ourselves and our family.
Political stability over the next few years (2009 elections pending) will be interesting and should be taken into consideration. Crime is the obvious other. Are the potential benefits worth the risks involved?

If I were in your position I would ask...would a education in South Africa (albeit at one of the top boarding schools) be able to provide the benefits your were speaking of wanting for your children? Does their sphere of influence go beyond the respected country like schools such as Eton & École polytechnique in Paris?

We have looked at Bishops as a possible school in the future although personal preferance would rule out boarding.
I know people who have attended who speak very highly of the school. However students will enter 2 years later then British students and if they want to study A levels they have to stay a further year after matric.

On the plus side..... Robert Mugabe sends his youngest son to Bishops (if I'm not mistaken) so at least you would have someone interesting to speak to on parent-teacher evenings....(bad joke I know!!!)

I do understand though that you are only looking for the best for your children so on that respect I wish you all the best.

Pablo

I don't mean to contradict your post, but to define 'success' merely in terms of the earning power of one's subsequent employment is philistine. A good education - a liberal education, as it was once called - is about far more than what you can earn at the end of it.

The philistine view is one that is rapidly destroying the universities, turning them into no more than job-training centres.

ForeignGal

Hi fa0019.

My hub had a rough education and also has made a great success as an investment banker - maybe you know him. He is now respected in his own right but he did spend years watching friends, aquaintances, and work colleagues advance quicker because of their education. Now he is respected in his own right and we are glad at the struggles we had as it makes us more resilient, but when it comes to our kids we never see it like that!

Robert Mugabe's son If a school lets his son go there then I'm not sending him out of principal! Not the boys fault, of course but you'd think the school would have higher morals.

I don't think for one moment that Hilton offers the same kuodos of Eton but they do student exchanges with them every year, so it must be up there as far as public schools view them. Regarding Bishops, I'm sure its day and boarding although I'm not exactly sure. Starting two years late is not an issue as my sons prep school finishes in Year 8, their Grade 7, and I'm sure RSA private schools finish a year earlier than English schools so to then add an extra year on wouldn't bother me.

I'd love to hear how things go and if you decide to move out how well your getting on.

ForeignGal

This is the main difference between state and private education - it teaches you to think and lead, even if you're not natural at either. Only a fews succeed inspite of their poor education.

fa0019

Pablo - If you interpreted my statement of success as 'financial' then I apologise but if you read it carefully there is no mention of money.

All I meant to stress is that I have managed to get into a industry which many will know is very competative and presitgeous with high barriers of entry...without all the contacts and opportunities which some private schools may offer.
I could have chosen other industries to work in but I chose this one because of the environment abd the challenges not the financial rewards.

I always felt that education is there if you want it regardless of where you go...its what you make of it that counts. I am not a exception, my only other sibling is a Surgeon and together we share 5 degrees between us.

nevertheless this was not the point I was making......rather I was trying to highlight that there are good state schools out there.