Is this offensive?
Jan 24th 2008, 1:11 pm
#91
Happily hungover
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Runcorn, via Africa and parts unknown.
Posts: 2,447
Jan 24th 2008, 2:20 pm
#92
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: Is this offensive?
You guys seem to have gone way off topic.
Nobody has called anyone on here a racist so what is rattling all your cages ?
I have just as much a right to discuss this as you have and we live in a world where information, well most of it is freely available for all to see. History is history, and by and large it is correct. Are we going to try and change history to suit ?
What more right have you got to discuss African history over me ?
Because you lived there within the last 20-30 years !!! come on !!!
Ok, I will not discuss the bible because it was written by Jews and I am not Jewish ? I cannot discuss the affects of Nazi Germany because I am not German ? or Papa Doc because I am not Haitian ?
Please, this is Great Britain and we can discuss everything openly here.
Forget the warped censorship
Jan 24th 2008, 2:38 pm
#93
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Is this offensive?
An example of begging the question.
What confers this right? Knowledge? Experience? A loud mouth?
As in the fatuous "is this offensive?" of the original poster.
What more right have you got to discuss African history over me ?
Forget the warped censorship
Jan 24th 2008, 2:46 pm
#94
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Is this offensive?
A few months ago, an American academic visited the UK on a book tour. He pointed out that by any of the commonly used measures of intelligence, blacks were less intelligent than other races. His book tour was promptly cancelled, and he was dismissed from his job. So irrespective of the truth of his claim, it is apparent that your observation that "we can discuss everything openly here" is not quite right. It would be truer to say that if you want to keep your job, and not be spat at in the street, then you had better toe the party line.
Jan 24th 2008, 2:49 pm
#95
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: Is this offensive?
Mmmm, ideology is such a lovely thing, but so very impractical in the real world. When people tell you that you actually have to live there to comprehend the reality of how life is lived in Africa, that is not taking away from your reading of history, it is to get you to understand that there is a whole lot more going on that what was written in that text book. People do not love, honour and respect each other in the UK. Perhaps I should have a go at the English for what they did to the Celts. I surely can have a field day for what they did to the Welsh. Make them grovel as they are the reason we ended up in Africa in the first place.
I feel strongly that any "authority" on Africa needs to actually be there for a spell to completely understand the dynamics. I have two cousins who pretty much had the same feelings about Zambia/Zims based on "research", and came away with a bit of a different perspective after their extended time there.
Just for a matter of record. Love, peace, respect bla bla simply dioes not apply amoungst the tribes either, and still doesn't. Ripping each other apart in the name of tribalism was, and still is perfectly acceptable. That I have unfortunately seen when accidently coming across a rather unpleasant faction fighting event.
Peace, love, harmony etc. has never existed between men, and just looking at our world around us shows that in some form or another, we are still spoiling for a fight.
I feel strongly that any "authority" on Africa needs to actually be there for a spell to completely understand the dynamics. I have two cousins who pretty much had the same feelings about Zambia/Zims based on "research", and came away with a bit of a different perspective after their extended time there.
Just for a matter of record. Love, peace, respect bla bla simply dioes not apply amoungst the tribes either, and still doesn't. Ripping each other apart in the name of tribalism was, and still is perfectly acceptable. That I have unfortunately seen when accidently coming across a rather unpleasant faction fighting event.
Peace, love, harmony etc. has never existed between men, and just looking at our world around us shows that in some form or another, we are still spoiling for a fight.
Jan 24th 2008, 3:14 pm
#96
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: Is this offensive?
A few months ago, an American academic visited the UK on a book tour. He pointed out that by any of the commonly used measures of intelligence, blacks were less intelligent than other races. His book tour was promptly cancelled, and he was dismissed from his job. So irrespective of the truth of his claim, it is apparent that your observation that "we can discuss everything openly here" is not quite right. It would be truer to say that if you want to keep your job, and not be spat at in the street, then you had better toe the party line.
Pablo, now you know this is absolute rubbish !!! Is'nt that how apartheid was justified. This certainly sounds like the views of a white supremist and unfortunately for the old fashioned supremist these views are not going to be tolerated in a modern day world.
We could go back to when the Egyptions, then Greeks could have said the European world was backward in comparison, does that mean whites were less intelligent then ?
Who is the wisest man in the Old Testament.... OK you guesssed right, King Soloman, how does he describe himself "Black and Comely", does this mean the whites of that day were less intelligent by any commonly used measures of intelligence ?
Pablo...think before you speak
Jan 24th 2008, 3:23 pm
#97
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Is this offensive?
Pablo, now you know this is absolute rubbish !!! Is'nt that how apartheid was justified. This certainly sounds like the views of a white supremist and unfortunately for the old fashioned supremist these views are not going to be tolerated in a modern day world.
We could go back to when the Egyptions, then Greeks could have said the European world was backward in comparison, does that mean whites were less intelligent then ?
Who is the wisest man in the Old Testament.... OK you guesssed right, King Soloman, how does he describe himself "Black and Comely", does this mean the whites of that day were less intelligent by any commonly used measures of intelligence ?
Pablo...think before you speak
We could go back to when the Egyptions, then Greeks could have said the European world was backward in comparison, does that mean whites were less intelligent then ?
Who is the wisest man in the Old Testament.... OK you guesssed right, King Soloman, how does he describe himself "Black and Comely", does this mean the whites of that day were less intelligent by any commonly used measures of intelligence ?
Pablo...think before you speak
And yet all I did was give you an example of how people in the UK are not as free to say what they think as you seem to claim, even when that American academic's opinion was backed up with research. But off you go, jumping to conclusions and ranting away, without even reading what I said. Do you read history books that way too?
Jan 24th 2008, 3:31 pm
#98
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: Is this offensive?
Mmmm, ideology is such a lovely thing, but so very impractical in the real world. When people tell you that you actually have to live there to comprehend the reality of how life is lived in Africa, that is not taking away from your reading of history, it is to get you to understand that there is a whole lot more going on that what was written in that text book. People do not love, honour and respect each other in the UK. Perhaps I should have a go at the English for what they did to the Celts. I surely can have a field day for what they did to the Welsh. Make them grovel as they are the reason we ended up in Africa in the first place.
I feel strongly that any "authority" on Africa needs to actually be there for a spell to completely understand the dynamics. I have two cousins who pretty much had the same feelings about Zambia/Zims based on "research", and came away with a bit of a different perspective after their extended time there.
Just for a matter of record. Love, peace, respect bla bla simply dioes not apply amoungst the tribes either, and still doesn't. Ripping each other apart in the name of tribalism was, and still is perfectly acceptable. That I have unfortunately seen when accidently coming across a rather unpleasant faction fighting event.
Peace, love, harmony etc. has never existed between men, and just looking at our world around us shows that in some form or another, we are still spoiling for a fight.
I feel strongly that any "authority" on Africa needs to actually be there for a spell to completely understand the dynamics. I have two cousins who pretty much had the same feelings about Zambia/Zims based on "research", and came away with a bit of a different perspective after their extended time there.
Just for a matter of record. Love, peace, respect bla bla simply dioes not apply amoungst the tribes either, and still doesn't. Ripping each other apart in the name of tribalism was, and still is perfectly acceptable. That I have unfortunately seen when accidently coming across a rather unpleasant faction fighting event.
Peace, love, harmony etc. has never existed between men, and just looking at our world around us shows that in some form or another, we are still spoiling for a fight.
Please do not give me the one has to be there to be involved and understand.
African history goes back thousands of years before a European stepped foot on the continent, and you are no more an authority on this history than me.
The current crisis in Africa has been caused by years of strife and turmoil, a lot occuerrd before any of us was born, so how you going to discuss that ERA by being there ? Jumping into a time machine ?
You guys seemed to be so tunnelled vision that you cannot see the blatant truth of the matter staring you in the face.
don't tell me about tribalism, tribalism has existed in Europe from the beginning of time so whats new ?
Lets talk about the millions of little African children who die year in year out, whilst for some the greed of Africa's riches turn there concience cold to these blatant facts.
The suffering and wickedness bestowed amongst the blacks can never be forgotten. And the wickedness caused by whites and blacks against these people can never be forgotten.
Just do not try and brush it under the carpet, because until someone accepts responsibilty and apology how can Africa possibly progress ?
Believe me I am also aware and well versed on the wicked Black dictators in Africa and they to will one day have to stand before God and give an account for their wicked actions.
This is not just about black or white, evil and wickedness has no colour !!!!
Jan 24th 2008, 3:40 pm
#100
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,881
Re: Is this offensive?
Lets talk about the millions of little African children who die year in year out,
The suffering and wickedness bestowed amongst the blacks can never be forgotten. And the wickedness caused by whites and blacks against these people can never be forgotten.
Just do not try and brush it under the carpet, because until someone accepts responsibilty and apology how can Africa possibly progress ?
This is not just about black or white, evil and wickedness has no colour !!!!
Jan 24th 2008, 3:41 pm
#101
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: Is this offensive?
Pablo, now you know this is absolute rubbish !!! Is'nt that how apartheid was justified. This certainly sounds like the views of a white supremist and unfortunately for the old fashioned supremist these views are not going to be tolerated in a modern day world.
We could go back to when the Egyptions, then Greeks could have said the European world was backward in comparison, does that mean whites were less intelligent then ?
Who is the wisest man in the Old Testament.... OK you guesssed right, King Soloman, how does he describe himself "Black and Comely", does this mean the whites of that day were less intelligent by any commonly used measures of intelligence ?
Pablo...think before you speak
We could go back to when the Egyptions, then Greeks could have said the European world was backward in comparison, does that mean whites were less intelligent then ?
Who is the wisest man in the Old Testament.... OK you guesssed right, King Soloman, how does he describe himself "Black and Comely", does this mean the whites of that day were less intelligent by any commonly used measures of intelligence ?
Pablo...think before you speak
Jan 24th 2008, 3:44 pm
#102
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: Is this offensive?
As Bob Marley sang, "one love, one love, lets get together and feel alright" !!!
Please do not give me the one has to be there to be involved and understand.
African history goes back thousands of years before a European stepped foot on the continent, and you are no more an authority on this history than me.
The current crisis in Africa has been caused by years of strife and turmoil, a lot occuerrd before any of us was born, so how you going to discuss that ERA by being there ? Jumping into a time machine ?
You guys seemed to be so tunnelled vision that you cannot see the blatant truth of the matter staring you in the face.
don't tell me about tribalism, tribalism has existed in Europe from the beginning of time so whats new ?
Lets talk about the millions of little African children who die year in year out, whilst for some the greed of Africa's riches turn there concience cold to these blatant facts.
The suffering and wickedness bestowed amongst the blacks can never be forgotten. And the wickedness caused by whites and blacks against these people can never be forgotten.
Just do not try and brush it under the carpet, because until someone accepts responsibilty and apology how can Africa possibly progress ?
Believe me I am also aware and well versed on the wicked Black dictators in Africa and they to will one day have to stand before God and give an account for their wicked actions.
This is not just about black or white, evil and wickedness has no colour !!!!
Please do not give me the one has to be there to be involved and understand.
African history goes back thousands of years before a European stepped foot on the continent, and you are no more an authority on this history than me.
The current crisis in Africa has been caused by years of strife and turmoil, a lot occuerrd before any of us was born, so how you going to discuss that ERA by being there ? Jumping into a time machine ?
You guys seemed to be so tunnelled vision that you cannot see the blatant truth of the matter staring you in the face.
don't tell me about tribalism, tribalism has existed in Europe from the beginning of time so whats new ?
Lets talk about the millions of little African children who die year in year out, whilst for some the greed of Africa's riches turn there concience cold to these blatant facts.
The suffering and wickedness bestowed amongst the blacks can never be forgotten. And the wickedness caused by whites and blacks against these people can never be forgotten.
Just do not try and brush it under the carpet, because until someone accepts responsibilty and apology how can Africa possibly progress ?
Believe me I am also aware and well versed on the wicked Black dictators in Africa and they to will one day have to stand before God and give an account for their wicked actions.
This is not just about black or white, evil and wickedness has no colour !!!!
Jan 24th 2008, 3:57 pm
#103
...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,165
Re: Is this offensive?
All I can do is offer advice
1 Accept responsibility for the wrong doing
2 Beg God for forgiveness
3 Offer an apology publicly to those affected
4 Ask for their forgiveness
5 Hope they can forgive
6 Learn to love and respect each other irrespective of differences
7 Start to rebuild Africa as one people united, irrespective of colour, creed or race. This may involve redistributing wealth and building up of all communities.
It can be done if the will is there !!
That is the backbone
Jan 24th 2008, 4:02 pm
#104
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: Is this offensive?
As Bob Marley sang, "one love, one love, lets get together and feel alright" !!!
Please do not give me the one has to be there to be involved and understand.
African history goes back thousands of years before a European stepped foot on the continent, and you are no more an authority on this history than me. No kidding, would not have known that before you enlightened me.
The current crisis in Africa has been caused by years of strife and turmoil, a lot occuerrd before any of us was born, so how you going to discuss that ERA by being there ? Jumping into a time machine ? Seriously, I never would have known that either. I like the time machine concept..... Ah, but observing the slow evolution of tribes - in my generation of course- that seem to be stuck in some rather old and ineffectual way with bad Englishman forcing the changes.
You guys seemed to be so tunnelled vision that you cannot see the blatant truth of the matter staring you in the face. And of course you are enlightened
Won't last a week in Africa tho.
don't tell me about tribalism, tribalism has existed in Europe from the beginning of time so whats new ? I'm stunned, really?
Lets talk about the millions of little African children who die year in year out, whilst for some the greed of Africa's riches turn there concience cold to these blatant facts. Now you're back to that tunnel vision. so very many of those children die because their own leaders divert much needed aid into their own coffers. When the Geldof live aid thing was going on and the world starting piling ship load upon ship load of food and supplies, much of that food was either stolen or lay rotting because of FACTION fighting. No matter what the aid organizations tried to do, they could not get passed those ambushes.
The suffering and wickedness bestowed amongst the blacks can never be forgotten. And the wickedness caused by whites and blacks against these people can never be forgotten. Who is forgetting, but most importantly what is changing? NOTHING, it's getting worse after all these years, and billions of dollars.
Just do not try and brush it under the carpet, because until someone accepts responsibilty and apology how can Africa possibly progress ? Tell me exactly how you are taking responsibility. After all you should be answerable to your forefathers.
Believe me I am also aware and well versed on the wicked Black dictators in Africa and they to will one day have to stand before God and give an account for their wicked actions. So now we are bible punching too. Many of those tribes don't believe in our God so it's a moot point.
This is not just about black or white, evil and wickedness has no colour !!!!
Please do not give me the one has to be there to be involved and understand.
African history goes back thousands of years before a European stepped foot on the continent, and you are no more an authority on this history than me. No kidding, would not have known that before you enlightened me.
The current crisis in Africa has been caused by years of strife and turmoil, a lot occuerrd before any of us was born, so how you going to discuss that ERA by being there ? Jumping into a time machine ? Seriously, I never would have known that either. I like the time machine concept.....
Ah, but observing the slow evolution of tribes - in my generation of course- that seem to be stuck in some rather old and ineffectual way with bad Englishman forcing the changes.You guys seemed to be so tunnelled vision that you cannot see the blatant truth of the matter staring you in the face. And of course you are enlightened
Won't last a week in Africa tho.don't tell me about tribalism, tribalism has existed in Europe from the beginning of time so whats new ? I'm stunned, really?
Lets talk about the millions of little African children who die year in year out, whilst for some the greed of Africa's riches turn there concience cold to these blatant facts. Now you're back to that tunnel vision. so very many of those children die because their own leaders divert much needed aid into their own coffers. When the Geldof live aid thing was going on and the world starting piling ship load upon ship load of food and supplies, much of that food was either stolen or lay rotting because of FACTION fighting. No matter what the aid organizations tried to do, they could not get passed those ambushes.
The suffering and wickedness bestowed amongst the blacks can never be forgotten. And the wickedness caused by whites and blacks against these people can never be forgotten. Who is forgetting, but most importantly what is changing? NOTHING, it's getting worse after all these years, and billions of dollars.
Just do not try and brush it under the carpet, because until someone accepts responsibilty and apology how can Africa possibly progress ? Tell me exactly how you are taking responsibility. After all you should be answerable to your forefathers.
Believe me I am also aware and well versed on the wicked Black dictators in Africa and they to will one day have to stand before God and give an account for their wicked actions. So now we are bible punching too. Many of those tribes don't believe in our God so it's a moot point.
This is not just about black or white, evil and wickedness has no colour !!!!
Jan 24th 2008, 4:08 pm
#105
Nuts and Bolts
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Palm Tree in the Snow
Posts: 2,116
Re: Is this offensive?
All I can do is offer advice
1 Accept responsibility for the wrong doing
2 Beg God for forgiveness
3 Offer an apology publicly to those affected
4 Ask for their forgiveness
5 Hope they can forgive
6 Learn to love and respect each other irrespective of differences
7 Start to rebuild Africa as one people united, irrespective of colour, creed or race. This may involve redistributing wealth and building up of all communities.
It can be done if the will is there !!
That is the backbone
1 Accept responsibility for the wrong doing
2 Beg God for forgiveness
3 Offer an apology publicly to those affected
4 Ask for their forgiveness
5 Hope they can forgive
6 Learn to love and respect each other irrespective of differences
7 Start to rebuild Africa as one people united, irrespective of colour, creed or race. This may involve redistributing wealth and building up of all communities.
It can be done if the will is there !!
That is the backbone