pgtips

I will repeat what I said earlier "It all begins with love, and respect, and knowing we are all fellow human beings irrespective of colour, race or creed, at least that is a start."

I would advise you before you spout the name of Robert Mugabe, I would look up the history of Zimbabwe and the disgraceful way the blacks were treated way before Mugabie was on the scene.

Lets start with "Cecil John Rhodes" Mr Blood Diamond himself
Then the brutal racist regime of "Ian Smith"

Back to you.....

1066

Have you ever lived in Zimbabwe? Or anywhere in Africa? Do you have the first idea of what you are talking about? I think not.

pgtips

I have not lived in Africa nor have I lived in America but I study history vigorously and I know exactly what I am talking about. I have heard the stories from the perspective of White Africans, Black Africans and even the so called Coloured Africans and it all tallies with the history books, well the parts which were bearable to print.

Why not comment on the legacy of "Cecil John Rhodes" and "Ian Smith" for starters and not skate around the issue.

1066

So all your "knowledge" comes from books.

Stop wasting our time with your ignorant ramblings.

pgtips

So where does all your worldly Knowledge come from, you just made one of the most stupid statements I have ever heard in my life.

Documented history is normally written down on paper and bound into books, that is when it is most accurate.

Why do College Graduates including those from Harvard, Oxford, and Cambridge study from books ? What is the Holy Bible, yes you guessed it right a book !!!!

Africa's diamond-fueled wars killed 3.7 million people and displaced 6 million, Some of the most notorious smugglers who organized the diamonds-for-arms trade are still at large. Many of those who suffered during the wars have been condemned to lives of destitution.

De Beers started by Cecil John Rhodes, the British colonialist who founded the company has made billions of dollars in profit but the blood of millions of Africans have had to be spilled to achieve this brutal greed fed lust for more money and power.

Lets not even touch on his plan for British total control over the whole of Southern Africa enforced with total brutality and deciet.

I suggest you better start doing some reading !!!

val50

Reading is a wonderful thing, one of my passions, but we all know the written word can be manipulated and is based upon one persons interpretation of events. To get a clear perspective on Africa, as with any other country in the world, you do have to live there and experience for yourself what is going on before you can make an informed observation.
The USA, along with many other countries in the world, was involved in a huge propaganda campaign against South Africa, imposing sanctions etc. What was then Rhodesia suffered the same fate. The Portugese community probably have similar feelings about Mozambique and Angola.
I have just watched a film about Bloody Sunday (1972) and how versions of the events there were manipulated at the time. Growing up in Birmingham during the 70's I was more scared of going to live in southern Ireland than I was of going to live in South Africa, mainly due to information gained from reading newspapers and books.
I don't think anyone who contributes to this forum, and has lived in Africa can be accused of skating around any issue. It is good to see you are so passionate about a subject, but please don't preach from the sidelines about something you have no experience of first hand.

pgtips

I am not preaching from the sidelines, just stating historical facts !!! We cannot brush history under the carpet and to understand the woes of Africa now we have to look at the past events which have led up to the current crisis situations. None of us were born when most of world history took place, and hence we have libraries of books for reference, but it is the history of the world that has paved the path to where we all are now.

I have had first hand discussions with numerous Africans of all backgrounds about the plight of Africa now and if we are going to discuss Africa, lets at least discuss it with an open view and lets not try and hide the painful past with a mask of red dust.

The truth may hurt, but it is better to address it, acknowledge it, apologise for it, and then forgiveness and healing can take place. Africa needs a lot of forgiveness and healing, before it's people can start to love and respect each other.

Pablo

You talk about "historical facts", and then go on and spout your own rather sugary 'why not just all love one another' ideology... and you present that ideology as a "fact". You'll be saying next that everyone is equal, and presenting that as a fact too. Maybe Africa doesn't need 'a lot of forgiveness and healing' maybe it needs a good kick up the arse.

Mitzyboy

Look guys

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you think its wrong or not. Lets discuss it sensibly without calling each other names eh?

Muchas gracias

1066

De nada.

val50

If you want to be pedantic then that is your perogative.
You seem to have missed the point of my post.
You say you are stating historical facts.
I did history A level at school in UK, and we covered the Boer War.
Years later, whilst living in South Africa, my daughter also covered the
Boer War. You would never know that the same war was being discussed yet both of us got our historical facts from text books.
Nobody is discussing Africa here with a blinkered view. What I am querying is your right to participate as you have no first hand knowledge about the subject, only historical data.

dinwiddie98

Am in agreement with you there Pablo!!! EIh, wheinah.. Spelling a bit crap but if you have worked in South Africa you will know the expression from one of the many African languages. Always somebody elses fault.

Pablo

... Always the white man's fault. Don't forget, all whites are racist, even if they don't realise it. If they don't realise it, that in itself is an indication that they are racist. Anything - anything at all - goes wrong in Africa, it is the fault of racists - and all racists are white. If you don't have any whites left in your African country, then you can blame "international racists". They're everywhere you know, especially in America, which, as everyone knows, is far, far worse than Stalin's Russia or Hitler's Germany. ("BusHitler"). Koeberg power station breaks down - "racist sabotage." The Democratic Alliance - "racists and Jews". Black South Africans criticise government incompetence and corruption - "Uncle Toms". It's simple really. It's all in the history books.

Pablo

...As you say, it depends on who gets to write the history.

dinwiddie98

Couldn't have put it better myself! Unless you have walked in my shoes don't comment. Rather listen to what people have said on this forum and then decide for yourself. Are we all a bunch of rabid racists?? I don't think so!!