pgtips

In the UK when you have to fill out an application form for some jobs you are asked to fill out your ethnic origin

It used to be something like this
White
White Irish
White Other
Black Caribbean
Black African
Indian
Mixed (black white)
Mixed (other)

Now a whole load of new categories have been added icluded black British

Was this racist ?

As for the family looking to book your villa, I would not worry about how they describe themselves, as long as they treat your place with respect and cause no damage.

From what I gather from South African friends there is still a definate divide between the cultural groups in South Africa, these being the

White South Africans ( still by and large the elite economically)
Coloured South Africans (mixed race, who have their own communities)
Black South Africans. (still way at the bottom of the pile economically)

The coloured South Africans I know always seem to stress they are coloured and not Black.

We must remember South Africa has only got rid of appartheid in the last 15 years and the problems associated with this system are so deep rooted and will take a long, long time to sort out.

Tegwyn

So it's okay to say you are black, but not okay to indicate you are white. What a load of crap!! Well there you have it folks. A blatant bias and just watching where this thread is going was designed to stir. This was not an innocent inquiry, that is obvious.

PGTips, Apartheid is alive and well in South Africa. It's only reversed in the new South Africa but that is perfectly acceptable. I want to see sanctions enforced, and the gravy train ripped out from under the current government until they stop the practice of apartheid. Just as the previous regime deserved to see their backsides served on a tray, these turnips deserve to see the same fate and worse for doing so much damage to the infrastructure of a beautiful country.

So, it's supposedly racist to comment on how so many countries in Africa are going pear shaped. Well, incompetence and destructive behaviour is what it is no matter which way you look at it - and quite frankly, after years of aid, we seem no closer to getting these countries viable than when we started many moons ago. Why is it so hard for people to take ownership of their own screw ups and try address them instead of playing the race card?

pgtips

First point I totally agree with, there is nothing wrong with describing yourself as white.

Second point about reverse apartheid, to be honest the majority of blacks still live in the most appalling conditions because of the past regime and the country has to put some system in place to address this imbalance. These people are not human garbage, so why have them living in what a lot of us here would consider rubbish tips( townships ).

Third point about Africa as a whole being so bad, well Africa as a whole has been robbed and raped by all and sundry and again the damage from the past,
both physical and psychological will take many moons to address.

Tegwyn

I don't consider any person human garbage and I agree that a helping hand is necessary to get people into a better living environment. The facts are, history is history with it's warts and all and we can't change that. We can only hope people learn from past mistakes and move forward. This is not happening. The way the ANC is going about changes will ensure even more people will live in these conditions than those in the past. Trying to justify the current wrongs with flaws from the past do not change events. It just becomes shallow lip service which does not help anyone.

I also do not subscribe to the rape and pillaging scenario. There are many Africans countries that have been liberated for years, and have had a good 25 + years to get their youth moving towards skills in constructive development. It's not happening, and we in the West have made it worse by cultivating the victim mentality as justification for failure rather than pushing for personal ownership and responsibility. Excuses have to stop and accountability needs to be enforced. Catering to the incompetent will ultimately fail everybody.

Clearly, current policies of aid is not helping the people that need it most because there are far too many greedy hands pocketing the money which was intended for the betterment of others. Make them accountable first, and work on down from there.

Bring me right back to the apartheid issue. Clearly compromised a huge segment of society in the past, and it will continue to do so until it is abolished. The country is sliding fast because they have chased away the skilled labour they so desperately need to keep the country moving until they get their own people trained and qualified. It IS possible with the right government leadership showing the way.

pgtips

1 History cannot be changed but who were the benefactors of apartheid ?
And who is still living off these ill earned gains ?

Africa has been raped and pillaged for centuries, how do you think the West is so rich now ? Do you think being liberated for 25 years, less than a generation is going to heal the scars ?

You call it compromised, I call it a crime against humanity, one of the most brutal and disgusting inhumane regimes to ever exist, Hitler would have been proud of aprtheid. why do you think the legacy of this regime has left so many people desolute ?

pgtips

Ok FrankieM, you have finally opened the can of worms you intended to

FrankieM

I don't know anything about this but there is discrimination against North African immigrants in France from some quarters, that's for sure.

Because the riots were caused by black South Africans?

Some of you are misreading me - I am not having a go at South Africans, I have rented my house to many people from SA, nationality is not a consideration for me. If you think there is nothing odd about describing yourself as white, ask yourself if you would email a rental property owner starting with "Hello, I am a white..."

pgtips

Lets just say blacks in Britain know their fair share of what it's like to have the door shut in their face by landlords !!! :curse:

Tegwyn

Okay, so how do we change it now? No matter what history has produced, what now, and how is that going to improve the future? We can fight over history all you want but it really does not change the outcome if we don't try correct problems that are being faced now. Skilled people need to be in place until the balance of skill is restored. Change policies to empower the native people but when it creates a severe imbalance that forces critical skills away, the problem persists. You lose the people needed to keep the place functioning and you need a strong forward thinking government to create progression. So far, we are spiraling backwards and that does not help anyone. No-one disputes the history, but what does it take to move forward?

For argument sake, if the Europeans are the problem, please bring in the Chinese to maintain and rebuild infrastructure until such time they have better skilled people that are ready to take over the reigns.

pgtips

On this I am in total agreement with you. As to the solution, I am not qualified to offer an answer. It all begins with love, and respect, and knowing we are all fellow human beings irrespective of colour, race or creed, at least that is a start.

Tegwyn

Well FrankieM, congrats on the stir. We all know it was so innocently asked too..

Daxk

Dear Frankiem, see you joined two expat forums on the same day and posted exactly the same question in both.
How many other forums did you post your question on?

Mitzyboy

I wasn't going to mention that ...... but you are right

1066

Robert Mugabe would be surprised to hear that, as would a lot of leaders.

Let's not try to pretend that this is just a "white" problem.

Silly Sod

I don't recall the OP saying he was offended. If it is indeed a cultural thing then I guess they did not intend to be offensive. For me, I cannot see any reason to specify your colour when trying to rent a holiday home no matter where you are from. Your money is as green as the next persons so why specify? I can't imagine Roland Hulme saying - I am a ginger british male? Then again he might knowing Roland ha ha (only kidding mate )

Dear Sir,

My my name is Solly Sod and I would be most interested in renting your home in france for two weeks in June. We are a family of three; myself, my wife, and my nine year old step daughter. We are non smokers and will not be bringing pets. We are not **** by the way.

Could be another way of interpreting it. Depends on your point of view I guess.

EDIT: having bothered to read the rest of the thread after my, admittedly, perhaps reactionary knee jerk post of above, I now want to bail out and say I agree with all of you to some extent and disagree to some other. And yes, I am a total shit bag and I hate purple bastards too!!!