littlebrit

I've been there several times on holiday. I've never felt in danger. But then I've never been alone and and never driven.

But the number of keys people have on their keyrings, the Armed Response signs, the big dogs, the bars on windows, the electric fences - my goodness they scare me! I have one key for my front door in the UK, that's all. No alarm, no deadbolts even. Once we went on holiday for two weeks and left the car unlocked in the street, it was there when we came home.

Joburg is unquestionably outside my comfort zone. But my husband believes the potential gains are huge, and he says the crime does not worry him. I'm completely torn because I figure he knows the country better than I do.

newkiwi

The keys, deadbolts, armed response, electric fencing, bars on windows....thats the stuff your husbands famility take as being normal, and the things you will have to get used to.

i personally never had a gun in the house, but a lot of my friends did. when i was at uni i drove to the coast with my friend who kept a gun in the glove compartment just to be safe. maybe that was a bit over the top, but id say more people then not have at least one gun in their house.

no matter what you decide, your husband is lucky to have someone willing to consider moving there with him....

all the best, its probably quite stressful for you.

Pugsy

newkiwi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa

probably as close to objective as possible
not that wikipedia is the absolute beacon or anything....but close to as good as youre going to get i suppose

Daxk

Littlebrit, I would suggest you divorce your Husband.
I think he is a selfish idiot who does'nt care about you or your child,as long as he can go back to some sunshine.
I'm sure crime does'nt worry him, neither does 150 reported rapes a day.
He wishes to pm me, he's welcome, I think you should get rid of him,

littlebrit

But what about the Homecoming Revolution website???? It's so optimistic!

I can't make a decision with all this conflicting advice. At the end of the day the people who haven't experienced crime will inevitably have a different opinion from those who have.

I'm utterly confused and pretty scared.

Pablo

Absolutely right, Daxk. As for the rest, I'm beginning to think this whole thread is some sort of wind-up.

Homecoming Revolution optimistic? About what, for Christ's sake? The soaring crime? The fact that a corrupt rapist is about to become president? About the collapse of the health system? Or the endless daily power cuts? Or the exodus of skilled people? Or the endemic corruption? What, exactly, is HCR optimistic about?

Tegwyn

Ah, HCR!! Say no more......

Tegwyn

Yup!

newkiwi

Im not one given to hyperbole (sp) or imflamatory posts, i try to be as objective as i can...but.....
I would not give credence to homecoming revolution at all. It smacks of propaganda to me. i dont think it is worth anything in terms of forming an opinion. look at some current afairs programmes or newspapers instead.

If you have first hand accounts from your husbands family to go by, or accounts from his employers etc. then ok, assign some weight to those (bearing in mind they will have their own subjective views and interests).

only you and your husband can make the decision at the end of the day, good luck to you both..

Daxk

Littlebrit, I am VERY active on the HCR site.
I hate BS.
their function is to get skills to return home.
they gloss over the crime, will not post any links to any accredited media story that reflects crime except in the broadest terms.
Similar sites are goodnews ZA,
tell me where your husband says crime wont affect him.

Stanley10

Are you really qualified to give this type of advice Daxk, I think its way out of line.

Stanley10

Once again the conspiracy theory raises its ugly head.

Bijilo123

I think that I agree that this is a wind up and in my opinion we are being played with.

We understand that some people are at ease with Joburg. We are all looking at this differently - not whether we are at ease with the place but what the risks are. Yes the risks might not materialise but they are still there.

I rest and take my leave because she has been given enough ewarning and I'm not interested in being played with.

MartynK

I grew up in the UK and have lived in Joburg for nearly 30 years. I work in security risk management, and deal with clients concerns daily. In a nutshell:

SA, and Joburg in particular, has one of the highest rates of violent crime in the world. That is a reality. Some of us have "got used to it" in the sense that it probably doesn't concern us quite as much as expats, but that doesn't make it any better.

Residential security estates are popular, if you can afford them, and some of our clients insist that their expat staff live in them. They usually have high walls, electric fences, access control, CCTV, security gaurds and dedicated armed response. They are safer, but crime does occur inside them. Suburban houses require high walls/fences, electric fences, motorised gates, burglar bars, security gates, various alarm systems and armed response services. We have a few clients who also have 24/7 guards at their homes. None of these costs are tax deductible.

Walking in public places is not very practical. It is risky, and most suburbs don't have pavements because this is a very car orientated society. Driving can be scary for expats. Joburg roads are congested and many are in poor condition. Hijacking/smash and grab are known risks, and most SA drivers have scant respect for the law (speeding, recklessness and drunk driving are common). The local authorities regard traffic law enforcement as a revenue collecting exercise, and most of the police officers involved regard it as a personal revenue collection exercise. You can expect the cop to pull you over, stick his head into the car and ask if you want to "make a plan" to avoid a ticket. Criminal law enforcement is also corrupt and incompetent , and I frequently deal with police officers who can't even take a statement properly. We take the statements for clients ourselves.

FWIW, I love Africa and I don't really want to leave. My kids are grown up, and feel the same way, but my wife moved back to the UK a couple of years ago and I may still change my mind. I really wouldn't advise anyone with a good position overseas to relocate.