Stanley10

Thanks Pabs, I think you've proved my point. For daring to question the Pablo (Party) line I now slavishly support African despotism.

Stanley10

I think I've told you twice before, can't read or can't remember?

Campbells

ehh, sooree

Pablo

Stanley, your constant attempts to justify and explain away corruption, barbarism and tyranny would merely be laughable and rather pathetic -- especially as you yourself have chosen to leave Africa -- except that innocent people die because people like you make the comments you do.

Stanley10

Pabs, I stand falsley accused, I am not justifying or explaining anything away. If you cannot back up your assertions, then don't make them.

And you are where?

Pretty melodramatic statement, (which I also find offensive, but then not totally unexpected). So who has died because I dared question Pabs?

Mitzyboy

Errr .... thats a little harsh on Stanley isn't it Pablo

Tegwyn

Ah Mitzy, please may I enlighten you to the fact that I am in fact female. May come as a shock but alas my beloved assures me that I am really his wife.
My comment on the "it happens everywhere" excuse to justify blissful life in SA comes from a long time of reading blatantly deceptive excuses from some to sell a bill of goods. I know this country, and the mentality of a significant number of her people both then and now. HCR was a master of selling a perception that was/is deceptive. An excellent ANC propoganda machine to sell fantasy and attack a poster that questioned their theory. Censorship is an African masterpiece. Fortunately their following has been significantly eroded as more folk have spoken up about victims of crime, blatant discrimination in the work place, cost of living escalating, quality of life eroding, etc - and in many cases being broken down to a point that there is no choice but to leave if you can. Everything South Africa is trying to prevent to stop what is left of the brain drain. Not all make it across the waters. I know of so many that have headed up to Zambia, Tanzania and such to live a more peaceful life. They still want a life in Africa but not with the venom of the people that get their jollies of inflicting harm on a race of people they feel they don't care for and can get away with butchering.

The world screamed out at what was happening to disenfranchised Africans and yet become more subdued when the practice is merely reversed even with a vicious vengeance. The brain drain from South African should be a neon sign that there is a problem to anyone on the outside looking in, and as such should seriously question when someone tries to sell the Utopia line. I'm sure there are some that are enjoying a reasonable life, but to glib over what is affecting a huge portion of the populace is unacceptable.

Mitzyboy

Oops ... sorry for the sex change .... I don know actually but I'm easily confused as I rush around the world on this forum trying to keep the peace

I am honestly fully aware of the background to the reasons ..... all I'm trying to ask is that everyone here uses "innocent until proven guilty" for new posters on here, as its obvious to me that some genuine posters that have come on here have been treated a little offhandedly, and thats not specifically pointed at you

Tegwyn

I usually do too Mitzy, but that repeated recording of "it happens everywhere" is a very old tactic. I notice it surfaces not only on this forum and others from time to time.

Stanley10

I'm struggling with this one, is it because Tegs is paranoid, or is it because she cannot handle someone being happy in SA?

Some posters do not reognise innocence even after aquittal, expecting them to understand innocent until proven guilty is a bit of a stretch.

I would have said roughed up meself.

Stanley10

As old as SA = Zim?

SeaninOzalready

One of my cousins is back in SA now visiting where we used to go on holidays as kids. She has told me that it is so sad that things have changed so much that now there are security gates on the beach and people are warned not to walk at dusk or dawn and definitely not at night due to attacks. We used to run around and go fishing and not worry- heck I even lost the big V on that beach as a teen. Makes me so sad to hear that and know that I will never again be able to experience those sorts of places (only remember the good times).

As for the lady who noted that her kids like swimming in the pool or playing the garden (described as outdoor lifestyle), notice how these activities take place within the confines of your locked up house walls. When last pray tell did your kids ride their bikes in the road unsupervised or were you able to go for a walk outside (a proper walk of an hour or more through the streets) without being worried?

On another note, I have recently read 'My Traitors Heart' by Rian Malan. That book took the number of times that I have cried onto my second hand.. really moving stuff- recommend it heavily.. Man the stuff in that book that they never taught us in any books growing up is amazing.. Ultimately there will always be hatred and fear in SA. Perhaps in 50-100 years things might be better, but not in my lifetime--- only remember the good times and build new good memories where you live now is my advice..

sky08

1. We do not all live locked up behind walls
Actually if you believe it or not there are areas in Cape Town where one can actually feel safe. For example the West Coast beaches here as well as Sunset Beach, Dolphin Beach, Blouberg Beach and Melkbos Beach Area are still safe to walk around for a whole day.
Here we can walk in the streets without worries too! There will always be certain areas we avoid though, like parks.
The beaches here are not deserted but they are never crowded though, we have security here i.e. people walk their dogs, the odd security guard (ok, I know!) and they are just visited by people loving to play with their dogs or playing with their kids enjoying life or simply going for a walk (well, I would not like to walk alone)

Why would I want to go to a township here when I tried to avoid innercities in Europe if I could - regarding that well used it happens everywhere!!) and luckily I never feel threatened when walking outdoors. I did cringe when the story of that lady was told whose kids were worried the gardeners working in the street might kill them.... Haaaaaa?!!! If my kids would mention anything like that I would worry ...and not pack! Teach them what they need to know. So much for having kids learn about other people, cultures and races! Teach them the right things!!!!!

2. Kids riding a bike in the streets unsupervised
My kids ride their bikes in the little back streets, but with my supervision as they are still too young to be outside alone.
In the quiet suburban streets of Germany where I rode my bike when growing up, now my niece is not able to do this anymore as there are a lot of cars, making it impossible to enjoy her outdoors, there are strange people too and sadly also beggars and muggers in the parks, you will not believe it.
One of my classmates was raped and killed on her way to an afterschool activity when we were 17! We always thought we would live in a nice quiet suburb until then!
My kids are still small and do accept being around their mum and dad. What will happen when they are older we will see... You do not find paradise in Europe neither!

Never did I say that life is rosy here in Cape Town, but why scare people away who plan to work and move here? Let them ask their questions and give them facts and statistics!

3. Outdoors lifestyle in Cape Town is good!

There are still nice places here to live and our outdoors lifestyle is not limited to short one-hour walks, you have great parks (Helderberg, Jonkershoek) close by for walking and hiking, wonderful spacious wine estates for picknicks and walks and as I mentioned many of the beaches are safe enough not to worry about your own safety.

Said enough for now. Just this: It needs people here to see that you have to work for a better world. It does not happen alone!
It is easy to leave "a sinking ship"... It needs people to rock the boat and work together! We are here because there are luckily still enough good people here to rock it!

Pablo

Cape Town is *surrounded* by townships. It's a powder keg. Brett Goldin thought he was safe too, until he was picked up from the nice suburb he was visiting, taken on his terror ride, stripped naked, and shot in the head.

Go tell his parents life is good. (Actually, the grief killed one of them.)

sky08

Guess with your arguments nobody can win.
And I do not agree with you: Cape Town is not surrounded by townships, there are a lot of decent places. By night I did not even like to drive around deserted York/England!
I live here now and think I feel alright! The townships you can and will have to avoid. There are no go places everywhere (again).

Well, and I find your wording: "Go tell his parents..."actually quite offensive!.. and useless!

Like I already mentioned before: you always will find a down side if you are looking for one. I try to see my glass half full instead....