Lubymum

hello

After reading varoius other threads on here I see that most people have a VERY negative opinion of re-locating to J'burg especially with children.

I was really interested and happy to consider SA earlier today when my hubby mentioned it and the possibility of it seems to have come at a convinient time in our lives. but now from reading other posts I have to say that my attitude has changed and I am now worried about if my baby will be safe.

I think that we both are pretty level headed and wouldn't jump from the frying pan into the fire, but your resposes concern me. is everyone this negative about living in J'burg?

all we know about the project that my hubby would work for is that it is a rail project for Gautrain.

Are gated communities safe or will I still live in fear of the violent crime that others on the site mention?

Are there any other expat WAG's on here that can give me their opinion on J'burg?

Thanks

Claire

Pablo

Crime, including violent crime, takes place even within gated communities. Also, you cannot stay inside a gated community forever. You need to go out. You have probably seen the recent post here about a young girl shot on her way to/from school. Whether you choose to "live in fear of violent crime" is a subjective question that only you can answer. Friends of mine who are still there tend to be fatalistic.

Juggernaut

Johannesburg, Africa is a sprawling metropolis with a population in excess of 3 million people compared to the 150 thousand plus population in Darling, UK. The change could be jarring .I would recommend you come and stay for a while to assess if possible.

Many people come to work on projects such as you hubby would and end up staying .

P.S. I have a 2 year old that I drop off at creche and pick up daily and I dont live in constant fear at all.
But hey, thats just me .....

newkiwi

Johannesburg is more of a security / crime concern than other south african cities, I think that is a fair statement. Thats not to say there isnt nice places to stay in Johannesburg but you will need to be careful and streetwise. I would suggest living in a security complex is a minimum requirement. There are nice areas in johannesburg, but is costly.

You wont necessarily LIVE in fear, many people live quite happily but then again you may find you have a nagging fear in the back of your mind even if you arent directly affected by crime.

I suggest reading up on some of the south african newspapers daily to get an idea of the issues etc and how this compares to the stuff happening in the uk. Look at

mg.co.za
sundaytimes.co.za
news24.co.za
carteblanche.co.za

Yes safety is an issue, it may be possible to negotiate a trip to SA to look for accommodation and then use the time to get a feel for the place before making a final commitment to come. At the end of the day only u and ur hubby can make the final decision, best to be as informed as you can be about it.

I personally would not return, but thats only my personal decision, does not mean it is the right decision for you.

Good luck, i know moving anywhere is a big decision at the best of times, and to go into an unknown like south africa makes it even harder.

Lubymum

We have found out today that the accomodation we would be offered would be in Sandton, our friend that has already accepted his job and has been over for a week has said - yes the accomodation was nice and the country is very green and beautiful but you need to go with your eyes open and just be aware that there are some bad people around. for instance don't drive around with your laptop or handbag on show and generally be sensible when going out.

would you say that this is an accurate attitude to take?

I'd really like the chance for me and our daughter to expirience somewhere other than blighty. My husband has travelled alot for work before we met so he's used to going off to somewhere new. I really do feel that we shouldn't pass this oppurtunity by without serious consideration.

Pablo

Yes, it is an accurate attitude as far as it goes. But you seem to be hinting that if you take these precautions, you and your family will be safe. You will not. Do not deceive yourself.

I urge you to read the online newsfeeds that Newkiwi has given above. They are mainstream, and give you a good impression both of what is going on, day to day, and how the locals view what is going on. It's the kind of news that doesn't make it into the international press.

1066

Go - SA is wonderful - no problems at all - safest country in the world - great scenery - no crime - honest politicians - cuddly wildlife - brilliant education system - superb exchange rate - cheap medical care ........

that's why we all left.

Tegwyn

Ya know wot's worse? We're all flippin' negative for no reason at all.

Daxk

Is South Africa the only place with better weather your husband can get a job in?

Pugsy

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...349813,00.html

Hi there, it is defintely true that some can live with the risk, I still have friends and family there who are unable to leave, so they make the most of it and are relatively happy, but they don't consider themselves safe. They deal with alot of stress in their lives because of the crime. Even taking all the precautions you hear about will not stop you becoming a victim of a car hijacking or a home invasion. See the link above, 40 a day, it will scare you. How can one avoid that?

Sandton's my old ground. Gorgeous malls and shopping villages, lovely restaurants, beautiful homes (when they're not in blackout!), but crime is BAD. Don't be taken in by the shiny factor, it's a 3rd world country where you can be killed/raped for R1 or just for fun. MUST JUST SAY (as I always do) SA IS EXTREMELY BAD FOR RTA FATALITIES - check the numbers.

My expat WAG opinion is don't go. If a young single man was enquiring, I'd be tempted to be less negative, but with a wife and child, sorry, no way. It's too much responsibility.

PS. You really won't experience much 'culture' in JHB, people live behind their walls and bars. You won't take your child to the playpark, she won't ride her bike in the street, with you casually chatting to neighbours, sharing a coffee. You won't walk anywhere, except in the mall. But again, I can only speak from my experience. With respect to you, I know it is hard for a foreigner to truly understand how lawless SA is. One is always tempted to think it's an exaggeration, they always think it can't be that bad. Read the news, then go for a reccie if you must. It's your life and your choice after all, but go informed.

Pisces

It is the constant vigilance that wears you down. Watching your handbag, parking your car in a safe place, looking around at traffic lights and stop streets, making sure your home is secure whenever you are home or away, making sure your car is locked while driving, being vigilent using ATM machines.

I left SA and will never return - life is too short to live like that. My husband and I left SA with only our clothes as everything we had of value had been stolen. It is the personal items that you can never replace that is the hardest to get over. All the jewellery my husband had ever given me and all the gifts I had received from my granparents were taken as well as sentimental wedding gifts.
As soon as you land at the airport you have to have your wits about you.

My sister is leaving at the end of the year with her young family. She is extra careful and has still been the victim of an attempted car hijacking, had her car stolen, her home has been burgled 4 times, and she has been the victim of ATM theft. Two of my sister's friends have been killed in burgleries. One at a petrol station and another at a Spar shop.
One of the mom's at her daughters creche had her car hijacked while dropping off her daughter - she managed to get her daughter out before they drove off with her car.
The crime can happen anyhere, anytime and no matter how well you protect yourself you are vunerable.
My parents had electric gates, electric garage doors, large dogs and armed response and lived in Bryanston, Sandton and were burgled at least once a month before they moved - at night and during the day. They burglars knew they had at least 10 minutes to smash and grab before the security company arrrived.
The night before they moved my parents took the estate agent out for dinner who had sold their house for them and guess what, they arrived home to find they had been burgled.

newkiwi

Yes you certainly would never drive around with a handbag on the passenger seat or on the back seat, never mind a laptop. I never drove anywhere without the windows up and doors locked. You also need to be careful which areas you drive in.

"there are some bad people around", true, and a bit of an understatement!

Sandton is upmarket, i can see why it would be the sort of area offered to expats. The traffic is a nightmare tho, but hey, thats why they are building the gautrain hence ther project your husband is down for working on.

Unfortunately Sandton does also have a reputaton as being a hijack hotspot, so look at the security at the entrance to your security complex. Something with some sort of guard at the access point would be better.

You can probably get some feedback from your friend who moved over as well, his assessment etc.

It is an opportunity but you need to have a level head and make an informed decision. nobody on the forum is going to tell you its a brilliant idea, everyone here has left for one reason or another, so u mite be getting a particular point of view only. This will at the least balance the "its so great everything is fine there isnt a problem" views you may be getting elsewhere.

Gather as much information as you can, take an objective view on te pros and cons and then make you decision. The more info you have the better the chances of making the right decision.

Lubymum

Hi

thanks for the useful replies, as for the sarcastic ones - was there really any need?

It seems I may have been under the impression that the site would offer friendly advice - seems I was wrong so I dont think I'll visit this site again

Bijilo123

You'll do well in RSA if you don't have a sense of humour.

Pablo

Oh for heaven's sake! Most of these replies are from people who have put themselves out to give you some honest advice. I suspect your pique is caused by the fact that you have not been given the answers you were clearly fishing for.