HIV in SA

Old Aug 15th 2007, 1:02 pm
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Stanley10
So weren't the nats involved in the political scene?


Yep every office had a least one black face in it, they were called the teaboy/ girl, nothing racist in that.


Mandela's positive interaction - 27 years on Robben Island
Tokyo Sexwale's positive interaction - 13 years on Robben Island
Govan Mebeki's positive interaction - 23 years on Robben Island.

I get it, it was Thabo's old man who got the positive interaction, and Thabo is cheesed off because he missed out.
Are you naturally obtuse or do you have to try hard at it?
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Old Aug 15th 2007, 11:13 pm
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Redlippie
Are you naturally obtuse or do you have to try hard at it?
I'm natural, how about you?
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Old Aug 16th 2007, 1:14 am
  #63  
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Default Re: HIV in SA

So I gather the point of all that Stanley is to justify the ineptitude of government officials. A "teaboy" or "maid" doesn't have a hope in hell of holding public office here.
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Old Aug 16th 2007, 3:16 am
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Tegwyn
So I gather the point of all that Stanley is to justify the ineptitude of government officials. A "teaboy" or "maid" doesn't have a hope in hell of holding public office here.
Not at all. Just highlighting a few of the many points in the post that I disagree with, and trying to figure out what the positive interaction with whites was. I was an auditor in Jo'burg in the 80's so I moved around offices and factories all the time. The only black clerical staff that I came across worked in the stores, and they were discriminated against, God help them if they used the whites toilet, or drank their tea in the whites tea room. Was this the positive interaction Redlippie refers to? I played soccer for a team that had a few black players, we played in a white league, we couldn't use club changerooms, or go to the pub afterwards, and believe me those guys did get racially insulted. Was this the positive interaction Redlippie refers to?

Redlippie chose to respond by insulting me, I know why.
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Old Aug 16th 2007, 10:20 am
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As to the last sentence, HOW DARE you make a mockery of people we cared for deeply, who helped raise our children. I guess it is better for them to have been living in the same homelands, without work, clothing, uneducated kids, etc.....pathetic. There are millions of uneducated people in South and Central America, India, etc..who work as maids and gardeners and would be more than happy to have the sort of life that most of the S.A. maids and gardeners had.

You have blinkers on.
Redlippie ...you see thats my point exactly .Most white folks, let me not generalise, have always felt that the very little they did for black people sould be praised .At least they had food , clothes living in your backyard . They would have gone the route of the rest of Africa had the europeans not saved them.
Im sure you and most other white folks had the opportunity to be the best you could be .Work hard and reap the rewards the capatalist way, nothing wrong with that.Albeit at the expense of the majority in most cases.
Why is it so wrong now that people who undoubtedly have been hamstrung in the past at least now be helped to advance themselves ?
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Old Aug 16th 2007, 1:05 pm
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Putting loads of words into our mouths there, I can assure you.

South and Central America and India for example, are full of maids and gardeners, with little education, who I can guarantee would love to be treated the way that most S.A.maids and gardeners were by their employers. You seem to suggest that if we did not employ them, that somehow they would have become professionals, etc...... I wonder how Mandela, etc..got their degrees and became professionals? If they did it, as did thousands of other black folk, what was there to stop anyone from making it if they wanted it?

I did not exploit anyone. I did not take advantage of anyone.

I went to school, college, worked my arse off there, worked long hours in order to advance. I did not burn my schools down, throw rocks at cops, etc.

South Africa has fallen and is falling into the African quagmire, due to the pushing forward of the racist policies of AA and BEE. RACE rather than MERIT.

What exactly has changed, excepting for skin color? 40% unemployment and rising. Don't forget that.

Hm?

Last edited by Redlippie; Aug 16th 2007 at 1:10 pm.
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Old Aug 16th 2007, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Stanley10
Not at all. Just highlighting a few of the many points in the post that I disagree with, and trying to figure out what the positive interaction with whites was. I was an auditor in Jo'burg in the 80's so I moved around offices and factories all the time. The only black clerical staff that I came across worked in the stores, and they were discriminated against, God help them if they used the whites toilet, or drank their tea in the whites tea room. Was this the positive interaction Redlippie refers to? I played soccer for a team that had a few black players, we played in a white league, we couldn't use club changerooms, or go to the pub afterwards, and believe me those guys did get racially insulted. Was this the positive interaction Redlippie refers to?

Redlippie chose to respond by insulting me, I know why.
Funny you should say that Stanley. My other half played soccer for both the mines and Western Tvl in the mid 70's to early 80's and had african players on the team. The team rallied around these men and they ate together, changed together, and drank together. They were at many of the barbecues both we and others hosted. One thing he had noted was that of those black gentlemen that were on the team, a few of them would not interact with others because they deemed their tribe superior to the others. Blatant discrimination! You also assume that people that hired maids simply wanted cheap labour. There were very many of us that worked under the radar to improve the standards of our fellow man. She's a highly educated lady and let's just say that it did not come from just cleaning. I know of very many more that were doing what we were doing.

There are the good and the bad amongst us all and was not difficult nor expensive to offer a helping hand of friendship to those that obviously desired it. It is those that don't want to learn but want the gravy we have to be concerned about. Judging by events that are evolving, it appears to be rather high percentage.
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 9:36 am
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Default Re: HIV in SA

I went to school, college, worked my arse off there, worked long hours in order to advance. I did not burn my schools down, throw rocks at cops, etc.
Why do you think schools were burnt down. Nevermind being a student in those schools ,have you ever been inside one of those those schools ? Forced to learn and be taught in the language of people who dispise you. The burning of schools did not happen at a whim it needs to be looked at in context. Maybe the following article would help.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5038312.stm

Once again, what would motivate anyone especially a child to throw stones at police that were armed with guns contaning live ammo. Desparate times indeed.

Teg I'm glad you mentioned you betterhalf playing soccer with black miners even way back then .Cos when it comes to quotas in rugby,someone invariabaly always say, well why is there no quotas being imposed in soccer .Thats cos soccer has been open to all races for decades already. Unlike rugga in SA.
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 10:57 am
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Juggernaut
what would motivate anyone especially a child to throw stones at police
Why "especially a child"?
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 11:03 am
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Juggernaut
Why do you think schools were burnt down. Nevermind being a student in those schools ,have you ever been inside one of those those schools ? Forced to learn and be taught in the language of people who dispise you. The burning of schools did not happen at a whim it needs to be looked at in context. Maybe the following article would help.

Have you ever been inside a school in South America? No plumbing. Peeling paint. Filth. Holes in the roof. I don't see the kids burning their schools down. The kids in Zims went through some apartheid. I didn't see them burning their schools down. No wonder the population of Zims is about the most educated in Africa.

Why would a child burn down a school? Because the ANC told them to.

They're still burning/destroying their schools. 14 years later. Why?




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5038312.stm

Once again, what would motivate anyone especially a child to throw stones at police that were armed with guns contaning live ammo. Desparate times indeed.

Teg I'm glad you mentioned you betterhalf playing soccer with black miners even way back then .Cos when it comes to quotas in rugby,someone invariabaly always say, well why is there no quotas being imposed in soccer .Thats cos soccer has been open to all races for decades already. Unlike rugga in SA.
...I am not an apologist for apartheid. I did not grow up under it and frankly, it left a bitter taste in my mouth. But, the truth has to be said. The current leeches in government, from Mbeki all the way down to the local city councillors all over the country, need to be kicked out and replaced by honest, incorruptible folk.
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 11:11 am
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Juggernaut
Why do you think schools were burnt down. Nevermind being a student in those schools ,have you ever been inside one of those those schools ? Forced to learn and be taught in the language of people who dispise you. The burning of schools did not happen at a whim it needs to be looked at in context. Maybe the following article would help.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5038312.stm

Once again, what would motivate anyone especially a child to throw stones at police that were armed with guns contaning live ammo. Desparate times indeed.

Teg I'm glad you mentioned you betterhalf playing soccer with black miners even way back then .Cos when it comes to quotas in rugby,someone invariabaly always say, well why is there no quotas being imposed in soccer .Thats cos soccer has been open to all races for decades already. Unlike rugga in SA.
So the Schoolchildren stopped burning and destroying schools after 1994??
There has been rioting by School children since then??
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 11:39 am
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Firstly what do I care about South America ? We're talking about S.A . If you cant understand why it happened even after reading the link , then you never will. We'll always be talking past one another because we're arguing the point from opposite perspectives.

Growing up white you just wont get it ,you might think you do, but you dont.

How many schools have been burnt since '94 ?

How do you flip a whole nations mentality in one generation .Both black and white for that matter.
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 12:11 pm
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How do you flip a whole nations mentality in one generation .Both black and white for that matter.

By enforcing the Law ,the same law for everyone.
No difference for those more equal than others.
By Being Accountable and acknowledging mistakes.

But mostly, by being as any good parent should,
an example.

If I search News24 on Pupils rioting I get some interesting results. especially enjoy the ones about the teachers bewitching the pupils.
Juggernaut, you are trying to obfuscate the issue.
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 12:19 pm
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Quite, Daxk. And when the police are rendered incompetent and corrupt, and when the judiciary becomes the same, and when the politicans become the same, who gets to enforce the law?

The ANC set out to make the country ungovernable by inciting impressionable people to barbaric violence. They succeeded. What they didn't reckon with is how difficult it is to turn those same barbarians into decent citizens. They de-skilled a country already short on skills in the name of an ideological programme, and now they find that they don't have the skills needed to deliver even a fraction of what they promised.

The 'masses' have come to expect far more than they can possibly receive. When the ANC fails to deliver, as it will, the people will turn to demagogues and populists who will promise anything in order to gain power.
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Old Aug 17th 2007, 1:14 pm
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Default Re: HIV in SA

Originally Posted by Pablo

The 'masses' have come to expect far more than they can possibly receive. When the ANC fails to deliver, as it will, the people will turn to demagogues and populists who will promise anything in order to gain power.
That's the point I was trying to make with my S.American / Indian comparison, but failed, obviously.

S.A. is a third world nation - as are most S.American countries for example, yet the expectations from the masses in S.A., is that they want to live a first-world lifestyle overnight. As if you can wave a magic wand.

It took centuries to build up the first world, but the expectations in S.A. are that it would happen overnight.

Frustration is beginning to set in. The dust is about to hit the fan.
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