Yve

My husband and I are planning on moving to Harare. We lived in Kenya 10 years ago and visited Zimbabwe during that time amongst the Mugabe turmoil.
We've heard that since the US dollar has been introduced things are on the up again and desire to relocate to Africa again but this time with our small son.
I do have some questions.
How easy is it to get a work permit and permission to stay. My husband does IT.
How available is good healthcare and how costly?
Is there malaria in Harare?
Can you wear basic Jewellery like an engagement ring? Go out at night? Crime against foreigners, is it on the increase? Burgularies?
Compare living prices to the UK. Houses to rent, food, car, home tutoring. What would you need? $1000/2000 US per mth.
Are things better than a few years ago.
All experiences would be great please. Good or bad.

QWHolder

I'm a Zimbabwean IT professional working in South Africa on a Quota Work Permit

The sentence says it all. The salaries are very low. $200.00 per month and so. Things have become stable in Zimbabwe but you can't find work which pays you enough. At this stage, Zimbabwe is a best destination for anyone wishing to open an IT company, not looking for job.

Yve

Wow that's low.
We figured that starting our own business may be the route to go.
Not sure where to start re business permits though. Tried surfing the net and can't their official website. Any ideas anyone?

QWHolder

Zimbabwe immigration laws are not that strict. Permits are easier to get. Most of these permits are obtainable at the port of entry. You will have to pay a fee of course mostly less than R1000.00.

sherry_d

I am Zimbabwean born but now living in UK and was there in Dec. I really dont know about immigration so I cant answer that one

How available is good healthcare and how costly?
It isnt terribly good I am afraid, for basic headaches yes its fine but for more serious illnesses and diagnosis people who can afford it go to SA. While standards are poor it is VERY expensive and you have to pay cash upfront for everything. This http://www.cimas.co.zw/ is the biggest medical insurance provider and even with that insurance some doctors still demand some cash upfront.

Is there malaria in Harare?
NO but if you go to other areas outside Harare they may have malaria.

Can you wear basic Jewellery like an engagement ring?
Yes I have never heard of anyone stripped of their jewelery.

Go out at night?
Where to? There isnt many places to go to anyway at night but I wouldnt. The problem is criminals can follow you at night and it tends to be smash and grab at front gates. I still get paranoid being out at night but I know the place very well.

Crime against foreigners, is it on the increase? Burgularies?
Not really unless you live on farms. You just have to be vigilant and know which areas to NOT visit. You dont see many foreigners in the town centre anyway. They tend to go to Samy levy Shopping Centre in Borrowdale which is relative safe. You still need to be vigilant anywhere you go and for ladies that means holding your handbag tightly under arms and avoiding flashing mobile phones. Burgularies are just what you expect but if you can afford £2000 a month you can live in a compound like Borrowdale brook with better security.

Compare living prices to the UK. Houses to rent, food, car, home tutoring. What would you need? $1000/2000 US per mth.
Its VERY expensive, I was terribly shocked by how much everything cost. Food cost will be more than double what you pay in UK. There is no longer any manufacturing in Zim so everything is being imported and so cost more. All the things that you probably like as a Westerner will be deemed luxurious and terribly expensive.

This is a good site for properties rentals http://www.classifieds.co.zw/ and the nicer areas are in Harare North (Mt Plesant, Borrowdale, Newlands, Greystone Park etc)...These areas will set you back at least a £1000 and you need to be aware that quality of housing is very poor. Because of the crisis that happened nobody could afford to renovate so what you get even at this higher end isnt remotely exciting. Make sure there is a borehole and generator because water and electricity are scare in most areas.

Are things better than a few years ago.
YES but still far from being normal

All experiences would be great please. Good or bad.
It is expensive and I mean VERY expensive and much more expensive than UK. pm me if there are any specifics you need. Schools arent great and by any means and the only one I would be happy putting my child into is the American Harare International School but that cost about $15 000p/a. The other local schools were badly affected by the econmy and just the fact they stayed open when the rest closed was enough for parents to clamour for them. These will be around $1 500 per term for day. If your son is in primary then he should be fine and you can always do additional stuff at home. Its the secondaries that scare me a bit. The academic ones are mainly church boarding schools and expats just dont go there. Private schools in Zim arent known to be academic, they do have an edge and concentrate more on extra curriculum.

You need to be terribly brave to live in Zimbabwe, not because of politics unless you are a farmer you will be relatively safe. Its just the day to day life struggles you need to put up with and it can be frustrating and very draining. Water and Electricity are a luxury and even if you have a generator there are times when the petrol isnt available.

I find there is nothing much to do, most activities are social going round to see friends and for expats that means meeting people through embassies etc. There really isnt even what I would consider a good restaurant. Most frustrating, the better ones are closed most saturdays now as they are become wedding venues on sat as they make money that way. There is no way of really explaining the frustrating day to day grind you live with. For example just getting money from a cash machine can be terribly frustrating, a few times we had to drive across town because there was no money in the machines. Customer service is virtually non existant and these little things can make or break your stay.

Finally there arent any jobs in Zimbabwe, you need to look at the unemployment figures. Most expats come with a job normally working for an NGO otherwise forget about looking for a job when you get there. They dont exist. Its that simple. Even if you were to get one, the money will be peanuts and not anything you can survive on as an expat. Locals have their own intelligent ways of making do which you wont be able to on the salary.

I am just interested, what drew you to Harare of all places? You still can live a wonderful life there (in a bubble sort of way) if you have masses of cash.

Yve

Thanks Sherry that has surely given us food for thought!
My husband's dream is to return to Africa and it's been 10 yrs since we were there and he's itching to return and we thought Harare could be one of the safest and more developed places in Africa to set up home with a child. Do you know any other places?
We actually live in Canada but don't intend to stay. It's not for us. If I need more specifics I'll pm you. Thanks

shiftdelete

Hi Yve, I'd be interested to hear about your Canadian experience and what pushed you too want to move again, but if you don't feel up to discussing on the Africa forum, please pm me, thanks

Pablo

I guess you don't get to read the news much.

Yve

Pablo, name another that is comparable, I'll be interested to hear.

Pablo

Comparable to Zimbabwe? You mean political tyranny, government-sponsored death gangs, rigged elections, economic collapse, the complete wrecking of a once prosperous country, graft and corruption passim, state gangsterism, out-of-control HIV infection, zero healthcare?

Yes, that's a hard one. But even by African standards Mugabe has made rather a hash of things.

Yve

Yes, but that is not the first African country with those issues, of course it's not the country it used to be.
We lived in Kenya and there is way more violence there by our experience, and this is not due to anything political such as farms. Many colonials were targeted and beaten up on a regular basis! It is also very underdeveloped even in Nairobi, no water and electricity was normal, but crime is our concern regarding returning there to live.
We visited Zim when it was listed as an unsafe place to visit and it was hard to find a flight going there, we didn't notice anything particularly dangerous just crazy inflation and we had the best holiday we've ever had. We went into the rurals and met locals too. We all know things went downhill but things are supposed to be on the up. Albeit slowly, but that is to be expected. We are not going to automatically dismiss a country just because of it's political past and we do not go by just what the media says. We all know what propaganda does.
We are interested in the day to day living, and living amongst the local people who we found extremely friendly.
If the country has an infrastructure which is now comparable to Kenya and crime against foreigners (unless you're a farmer) is still relatively low then this is what we're interested in.
Cost of living is the surprise, but we'll see what we may do about that.

Pablo

Yes, you should go. See for yourself. I know you talk about "supposed to be on the up" but of course that is precisely the kind of hearsay you don't need. No, you need to be there.

So go. No good bleating and speculating about what-ifs and trying to cling on to your Western lifestyle. Go and make it happen. Cost of living? Then just economise. Live like the friendly locals. If you have to rough it a bit, that's part of the package, eh?

Yve

I asked for experiences not media related info otherwise I'd be looking on another website and seeing as you are neither Zimbabwean nor relating any personal experience from living there I do not see how you could have freedom of speech in this thread.
As for living amongst the locals and roughing it a bit we'd have no issues with that. We did it in Kenya, we roughed it a lot and not one of our friends were Expats or colonial decendants and we lived in a place that many a westerner would never live. When we live in a place we like to mix with the locals, and intend to do the same in Zim. But one still needs to know how they can make their daily bread. So don't get heated up about what you don't know!

Tegwyn

Zims would not be the place to start over as it is by far more deficient in basics than what you found in Kenya. Still a politically volatile place. You will find the same thing in Zambia but it is a bit more stable these days. Botswana is fairly stable but again, you are going back to basics. South Africa is another option and one I personally would not consider anymore. My hubby just returned from a trip to Zambia and Joburg ( I still have family there) and he was very happy to plant his feet back on American soil. As an aside, I don't care too much for Canada either and had lived there for two years. I travel to Toronto every two weeks and I can't wait to leave either. We are hoping hubby's company doesn't try and move us there permanently as it is the last place I want to be. Much prefer the States.

dfjordan

Have you thought about what kind of future your small child may have? Mixing with locals sounds great and looks nice when you see travel programs on the TV, but is that the culture you want your child to grow up in?
OK, one day Mugabe has to die, but even if a miracle were to happen and the country was able to revert to its pre Mugabe days, having a place like Zimbabwe on your CV doesn´t count for much when you´re looking for a decent job somewhere else and you should bear in mind that maybe your child wont want to stay in Zim when he becomes an adult.