2moon2

Hello to you all. All I can say is "thank god I came across this Brit Expat site"

I was involved in a car crash yesterday, and upon submitting my insurance claim, I'm told that there "might" be legal issues as I have a UK driving licence, not a South African one.

I moved here from the UK in 2001 and now have full SA Residency.

In all this time, I have used my UK licence to buy cars and hence, to insure the car.

However, I was involved in a car crash yesterday, and duly contacted my Insurance Broker, which has been insuring my house and vehicle since 2005.

Now I'm told that my UK licence is not valid anymore since I have been here for 6 years or whatever.

This is what I have been told by the Insurance Co.

http://www.acts.co.za/rt_nrta/23_whe...ng_licence.htm

My UK licence is clean and valid from 1989 to 2010. So what I really need to know is if my UK licence is valid and legal in SA or whether I should have a SA Licence.??

Having searched the web and come across this thread on this site which is dated 23rd Sept 2006.

Can anyone tell me in legal (laymans) terms what the law dictates - or a link to relevant sites.

The repair quote for my car is standing at around R36,000.

Also, if it is the case of requiring a SA Licence, is not my insurance broker's responsibilty to determine if my UK licence is valid / legal ?? When purchasing the car, and then insuring the car, my driving licence would be required for both purposes??

And, referring back to the post above, which mentioned that applying for SA licence would require me to relinquish my UK licence (which I am sure you would agree, would be utterly stupid - which Brit would "exchange" their UK Licence for that of a SA Licence? No offence intended.

So, if anyone has the answers or suggested sites, I would be more than grateful. I've sought advice from a top Immigration lawyer, the police and more, but it seems that this poses a challenging argument.

Not once, in all the time I have lived here, has the subject of an SA Licence been advised.

How do I tell if my UK Licence is International? I have travelled in many countries using this licence. In the top left corner is the logo: a blue square with UK in the middle with gold stars encircling it. Is this International?

Please help -this is the only site that I have come across that offers expats a decent forum / help, (It's only taken 6 years...,!)

Huge Thanks (in advance..!!) to any and all of you trhat might stumble across and/or have the knowledge to assist me,. I have exhausted all other resources that I can think of.

Moon

sa2oz

Try www.arrivealive.co.za they may be able to help.
Firstly i dont believe there is there is International licence. These are permits and are short term only.
Any country you travel to you are expected to get their licence after a time.

I dont believe you need to surrender the British licence (How can one country lay claim to a document of another country?). Many I know that have RSA licence still have UK licences

Ignorance of the law is not considered a defence, but I agree it is wrong of the insurer not to inform you of this, but they just want your money. I think if you read your policy document you will find it in there, and you will have signed it stating you have or are aware that you need a valid RSA drivers licence.
I think you better prepare for a battle with your insurer, and perhaps even some fines.

Pablo

The rule always was that, upon taking Permanent Residence in SA, you must either exchange your UK driving licence for a SA one, or you must obtain a SA driving licence the way South Africans do - that is, by taking a new driving test.

So I suspect your insurance company is correct.

It is irrelevant that your UK licence is clean and valid in the UK.

I note what you say about relinquishing your UK licence. But of course you're not really relinquishing it, are you? It remains valid on the UK DVLA computer. What people usually do is simply say the old licence was "destroyed" and ask the DVLA for a new one. The only priviso here is that the DVLA will only send out replacements to a UK address, so you need to arrange that. Still, this is a side issue in your present situation.

Whether your UK licence is valid outside the UK, and if so, for how long, is not a question that is determined by the UK authorities. It is a question determined by the authorities in the host country - in this case South Africa.

The stars on your licence merely indicate the creeping influence of the European Union, just as the original black UK passport has been replaced by a standard EU colour. It too is irrelevant to your present case, alas.

Pablo

Mitzyboy

One of the first things we did on moving to our new country was to check carefully the driving laws and requirements as so much rides on being properly documented.

In the EU you can often move to a new country and keep your old licence until it expires and drive legally, but in general from what I have seen of moving to a non EU country, you have to exchange a licence when becoming resident.

2moon2

Thank you everyone for all your replies, which have been informative and helpful, albeit not the answers I was hoping for! (0ne of wants to in the right!!).

Having read all your replies, I can only deduce that I might be in for a battle with the insurers. If so, I'll be stuck with a hefty bill to repair the car. I'll do my best to "read the fine print".

Does anyone have any advice on how on to proceed fighting the insurers if they do refuse to pay up because of my UK licence?

Again, many thanks everyone.

sa2oz

Firstly I would get a licence asap. Then you or a lawer might be able to argue that, you were capable, but just ignorant of the law
I would read through your policy document. You might find some legal holes, but I doubt it. perhaps find a lawyer who deals with this, but you could end up wasting R500 or R1000 to be told you are fighting a losing battle.
Good luck.
Here in Australia you must go for a test if you have a RSA licence but EU licences, you just show yours, and they give you a Au version.

Again I really dont think you ever surrender your UK licence. I worked with several people from the UK and Holland and they never surrendered their licence, but only presented it. As a minimum you would have to have an eye test, but becuase you have been there so long you could end up needing to do a learners licence. I would try www.Qnomore.co.za or similar, They are expert at minimising processes.

Daxk

were they aware that you were on a UK licence? ie did you provide them with a copy of the licence?
Was there any further correspondence?

Whatever, if it's in the fine print, end of the day , they have more money to pay legal fees than you do and your legal fees, unless on a No Win No fee Contingency basis could easily cost you more than 36K ZAR.
there's a very good crash and bash attorney at deneys reitz , pm me and I'll tell you who to ask for , no financial interests etc blah de blah blah

2moon2

Hey DaxK
Thanks for your message. I tried to PM you but got the message below. Can I give you my email address or visa versa? Seems like I will be in need of your advice. The repair quote to fix my my car is R36,000. And to think that I had left home not 2 mins before the crash and in less than 2 mins, my life changed by close to R40,000. So yes, yours any any other help/advice/tips/tricks or whatever would be more than welcome.

Redlippie

Try now 2Moon, seeing you have 3 posts

Pablo

I agree with Daxk. You are throwing good money after bad if you try to pursue this legally. Ignorance of the law is no defence. Just as in the UK, your insurance policy will state that you must be in possession of a licence. It is not up to the insurance company or broker to check up on this.

I fear you're just going to have to bite the bullet on this. You're lucky you didn't kill someone in your car crash, or you could be facing a bill of millions.

Mitzyboy

I agree with them
Look on the bright side ..... if you had injured or killed another road user, you might have lost everything you have in legal battles / compensation

Daxk

Naaah, it's South Africa remember, he who bribes most, wins!!

Mitzyboy

Sorry ..... forgot where I was for a moment

MaltaConnection

I have RSA permanent residency, and have been driving on my UK Licence. I was told by the police that a UK licence is no problem, as long as you obtain a letter from the British High Commission stating that your licence is valid, which I duly did. There is a small cost to this, but I've never had any problems since. Hope this helps.

Pablo

I don't mean to contradict you, but what matters when it comes to a dispute is what the law says, not what the police happen to tell you.